Japanese Upkeep Oil usage

[kennonlightfoot]

I wanted to see if I could get a clarification of what this number means and what contributes to it.

I notice that Japan was showing a rather consistent Upkeep usage of oil each turn of around 28 which was larger than their Oil production even after capturing all the oil fields. I thought I had put all the planes and ships into ports and grounded so they wouldn't use any oil but it never drops below 28.

The manual refers to "Oil Maintenance" which uses oil based on number of units on the map. If I am following the explanation this oil use occurs even in port if the port isn't level 9. It doesn't seem to have an adjustment for size of unit (Carrier vs Destroyer). It also appears to include air units.

Oil Maintenance—All units require oil to keep them in. If no oil is available for an oil unit, the units do
not get the base recovery for effectiveness but do get the supply level and headquarters effectiveness
recovery. For land, air, and naval units in port, 1 oil stockpile of maintenance is used for every 3
units/naval groups on the map. For naval units not in port, the naval group’s oil use factor is used to
keep them at sea. Keeping naval units at sea is very expensive. Units on a map supply level 9 do not use
oil as they get supplies directly from the train. Oil maintenance reflects trucks driving supplies to the
units from the rail.

Can anyone clarify how this number is calculated and what contributes to it?

[eskuche]

Yeah the understanding now is that naval/air have a minimum of 1/3 oil per turn. Land units on not-level-9 hexes also incur 1/3 oil per turn for oil delivery.

[incbob]

I have not seen land units use oil.

Naval units at a size 9 port do not use any oil.
Naval units at all other ports use 1/3 oil.
Watch you land units. Some HQ's use oil and come land units use oil. If they use oil they use oil each time they attack.

Air units use oil if they fly. That means if a TAC group, uses 3 oil, flies on your turn then flies an interception on your opponents turn it is using 6 oil.

[incbob]

Now that I think about it there is no way land unit, except for mechanized, are taking 1/3 oil. To many times I have used 0 oil with units on the map.

[YueJin]

Yeah, as Japan I moved around 30 divisions/armies off of rail hexes for the 1942 summer offensive and didn't notice any change in oil upkeep. There's no way every counter off of a level 9 hex uses 1/3rd oil every turn if they use anything at all.

[ago1000]

ORIGINAL: YueJin



Yeah, as Japan I moved around 30 divisions/armies off of rail hexes for the 1942 summer offensive and didn't notice any change in oil upkeep. There's no way every counter off of a level 9 hex uses 1/3rd oil every turn if they use anything at all.

+1 eskuche
@YeuJin
You won't see it there. It's calculated at the beginning of the turn and is added to upkeep. Oil using units (air and land) will use up oil in movement or attack. That oil is subtracted from stockpile during the current turn. Naval units use 1/3 an oil point if they are in port calculated at the beginning of the turn as upkeep. Naval units that you move out to sea use up oil, that value is calculated at the beginning of the next turn as upkeep.

1/3 oil for land/air units off rail represents supplies being delivered to them (abstraction)by trucks. It's calculated at the beginning of the turn as upkeep.

[kennonlightfoot]

I am also seeing some unexplainable ups and downs in oil production. Once dropping all the way down to 9 per turn even though I appear to control all the oil production hexes. I could see partisan activities shutting down some production but not all overseas production. Convoy lanes don't appear to be contested, more than enough merchants, and no enemy subs to stop the flow. Very strange.

Also, it looks like until Indonesia surrenders you don't get any oil from captured production but I haven't confirmed this. I just didn't see any increase as I took oil hexes until the surrender then it jumped up to 61 production.

[kennonlightfoot]

Here is what I am seeing but I can't find any reason for the numbers. They almost appear random.

First the Production display (upper right side) shows Japan producing 17 Oil with an upkeep of 26. In spite of this number being lower it did accumulate some stockpile (increased relative previous turn.

On the left upper side it show my oil convoys. If you add these numbers up I am importing 38 Oil. Where did it go?
If it is suppose to be combined with the number "from Japan" which is 15 why don't the Japanese have 53 Oil Production?
Where did the "15" from Japan come from? Japan only has on oil source which is a "3" in Aomori.

Down in the map the Japanese have control of Borneo and Sumatra. Borneo by itself should produce 25 Oil.
Sumatra has the potential to produce 32 Oil but Palembang is showing damage reducing it to 20 Oil.

The Upkeep number seems to never fall below 26 even though I can't find anything consuming Oil. In the previous turn I made sure every ship and sub were in a "9" port. All air units were set to mission. Unless Merchants, Trains and factories are using oil, I don't know where its being consumed.

[sajm0n]

From manual:

Oil Maintenance – All units require oil to keep them in. If no oil is available for an oil unit, the units do not get the base recovery for effectiveness but do get the supply level and headquarters effectiveness recovery.
For land, air, and naval units in port, 1 oil stockpile of maintenance is used for every 3 units/naval groups on the map.

No idea why your production is only 17 though.

[ago1000]

You may want to read this thread. It went dead and I don't know if Alvaro found something or not.


At the end Tyronec had to send Alvaro his game file. Seems like the same issue.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5021740

[AlvaroSousa]

Palembang has damage.

In the next patch I am removing Scorched Earth from NEI so this problem is avoided.

[scout1]

Do conquered territories automatically set up oil/resource convoys back to the home islands ? Or do they need to be individually set up ?

Or is oil universal and doesn't need to be transported back to the home islands being useable throughout the Empire regardless of its source ?

[ago1000]

ORIGINAL: scout1

Do conquered territories automatically set up oil/resource convoys back to the home islands ? Or do they need to be individually set up ?

Or is oil universal and doesn't need to be transported back to the home islands being useable throughout the Empire regardless of its source ?

all automatic.

[scout1]

ORIGINAL: ago1000

ORIGINAL: scout1

Do conquered territories automatically set up oil/resource convoys back to the home islands ? Or do they need to be individually set up ?

Or is oil universal and doesn't need to be transported back to the home islands being useable throughout the Empire regardless of its source ?

all automatic.

Thanks ...

How about supplies going the other direction ... the game starts with supplies send to various locations .... What about when new ones are acquired ? Does one need to set up new outbound supplies to distant lands ?

[sajm0n]

ORIGINAL: scout1

ORIGINAL: ago1000

ORIGINAL: scout1

Do conquered territories automatically set up oil/resource convoys back to the home islands ? Or do they need to be individually set up ?

Or is oil universal and doesn't need to be transported back to the home islands being useable throughout the Empire regardless of its source ?

all automatic.

Thanks ...

How about supplies going the other direction ... the game starts with supplies send to various locations .... What about when new ones are acquired ? Does one need to set up new outbound supplies to distant lands ?

Nope.

[tyronec]

You may want to read this thread. It went dead and I don't know if Alvaro found something or not.


At the end Tyronec had to send Alvaro his game file. Seems like the same issue.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5021740

Yes, Alvaro said he had found something in the reported data but the actual production was accurate. So as I understand it resource oil production data and convoy data is not accurate.

I am also unclear about how oil usage works. People have posted their different understandings of how things work in this thread, some of which contradict each other, but which is accurate ?
Do naval units in a 9 level port use oil ?
Are we sure infantry units do not use oil or does it depend if they are on rail ?

[Uxbridge]

Infantry units don't use oil per se, but if they're not in a rail hex they cause the cost of 1/3 of an oil point as motorized logistics has to deal them supply.

[ago1000]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

You may want to read this thread. It went dead and I don't know if Alvaro found something or not.


At the end Tyronec had to send Alvaro his game file. Seems like the same issue.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5021740

I am also unclear about how oil usage works. People have posted their different understandings of how things work in this thread, some of which contradict each other, but which is accurate ?
Do naval units in a 9 level port use oil ?

Yes they use 1/3 oil in port independent of size. (gets calculated at beginning of turn as upkeep.)

Are we sure infantry units do not use oil or does it depend if they are on rail ?
+1 Uxbridge

Oil using units (air and armor, mech) will use up oil in movement or attack. That oil is subtracted from stockpile during the current turn. No oil in stock pile means those units are dead in the water for that turn. Naval units use 1/3 an oil point if they are in port calculated at the beginning of the turn as upkeep. Naval units that you move out to sea use up oil, that value is calculated at the beginning of the next turn as upkeep.

1/3 oil for land/air units off rail(level 9 supply hex) represents supplies being delivered to them (abstraction)by trucks. It's calculated at the beginning of the turn as upkeep.

ORIGINAL: tyronec
Yes, Alvaro said he had found something in the reported data but the actual production was accurate. So as I understand it resource oil production data and convoy data is not accurate.

In the above statement is your meaning that the trade window reflects what you should be getting (the max) if you have enough MMs, no damage, etc and not what you receive or there is a bug?

[eskuche]

Almost! At 0 oil stuff can still move if starting the turn at sea. Also do we know if they use 1/3 oil point flat or if new BB use 2/3?

[sajm0n]

Manual says any naval unit at port uses 1/3rd an oil, not 1/3rd of their normal usage.