Tactics Focus: Gibraltar

[MattShadowlord]

Gibraltar

The Rock seems extremely important, but I have not seen it taken or taken it myself yet.

Assuming a game where Spain doesn't join the Axis, is it only worth trying if also taking north africa from the non-Vichy France, or is there a reasonably reliable way to take it in a standard (Vichy) game?

And on a related note, is it worth reinforcing to improve on little Tommy Garrison?

[wobbleguts]

A timely post for me. I am playing a modded 1939 campaign as Germany and have hit a brick wall with Gibraltar.

In my previous German games I have taken Gibraltar without any major problems, but I can't remember what the status of Spain was. I may have conquered them a bit or they might have been full on Axis chums. Not sure.

This time Spain is only 30% aligned and I've left them alone.

In this game, I bombed the s*** out of Malta and landed a SF unit - success.

Naturally, tried the same at Gibraltar. Bombed it to s*** and destroyed the defending Garrison but I am unable to land a unit there (despite the fact it is undefended). Why? Do you need to have an alliance or control of Spain so you can attack Gibraltar from the sides? Why can't you land on Gibraltar itself?

I haven't given up. As you can see below, I have two AVLs floating aimlessly off Gibraltar waiting for instructions. I also moved a Para unit nearby so I could invade by air, but for some reason I can't prepare it for an air-drop (guessing it's because they only have a supply of 4). An HQ unit will be arriving shortly to help supply, but if SF units are simply not allowed to land on Gibraltar, can Paras do so? If so, why are they different? Bit confused and I need to take Gibraltar ASAP as the USA has just (finally) joined the war. Game on pause for now.

[petedalby]

You can't amphibious assault a port so there's no way in for your amphibs unless you go through Spain.

Paras have a minimum range of 6. Swap your Para in to Oran to gain Supply 5 and you should be good to go.

[EarlyDoors]

Once the port is at zero you may be able invade from that hex

[pjg100]

Put an AVL in the transfer hex to transfer to the Atlantic, then next turn move to the sea hex south of Cadiz (looks like a sea hex anyway) and land in Gib. Or, more prudently, just use your PARA to do so as suggested above.

[Alcibiades73]

ORIGINAL: petedalby

You can't amphibious assault a port so there's no way in for your amphibs unless you go through Spain.

Paras have a minimum range of 6. Swap your Para in to Oran to gain Supply 5 and you should be good to go.

They have "minimum" range as well as "maximum"? No wonder I couldn't get some units to jump to where I wanted them to jump...

[petedalby]

No - sorry - I think you have misunderstood me. Paras start with a range of 6. That range increases if you research Long Range Aircraft - or whatever it is called. Paras can jump just 1 hex if you want them to. If they won't jump to where you want them to then the destination hex is likely to be in rain or snow.

[Alcibiades73]

ORIGINAL: petedalby

No - sorry - I think you have misunderstood me. Paras start with a range of 6. That range increases if you research Long Range Aircraft - or whatever it is called. Paras can jump just 1 hex if you want them to. If they won't jump to where you want them to then the destination hex is likely to be in rain or snow.

Ah, okay; thanks for the clarification. I had trouble jumping to Malta after getting rid of the AA gun, so it must've been weather.

[wobbleguts]

Gibraltar problem solved!

I looked at all your helpful suggestions and here are the results...

EarlyDoors suggested - Once the port is at zero you may be able invade from that hex

Sadly not. Gibraltar was already at zero but I couldn't land.

petedalby said - You can't amphibious assault a port so there's no way in for your amphibs unless you go through Spain. Paras have a minimum range of 6. Swap your Para in to Oran to gain Supply 5 and you should be good to go.

I think you are right. Looking back, I've been unable to land AV/AVL in ports before but as I could land them right next door and advance from the sides I never gave it much thought. I had a look at Malta to confirm this and it's only the south of Malta which is all ports. I must have invaded from the North. So you cannot invade a port hex! Seems a little unrealistic if the port is undefended but now I know what's going on I have no complaints.

Your paratroop suggestion would have worked, but I used the tip from pjg100 first as I still had an AVL floating aimlessly in the Atlantic transfer hex. He said - Put an AVL in the transfer hex to transfer to the Atlantic, then next turn move to the sea hex south of Cadiz (looks like a sea hex anyway) and land in Gib.

Wasn't expecting this to work because the hex under Cadiz is half Spain/half water but my SF landed without any problems. Looking at the Gibraltar hex in detail I can now see why this works.

Taking Gibraltar/Suez is a big game changer for the Axis. Thanks for all the responses to my query and special thanks to pjg100 who suggested something I would never have thought of. In future I will check targeted hexes in more detail.

While I landed SF troops this time, the best tactic for Gibraltar is probably bombing followed by paras. However, it's good to know an amphibious landing is still an option.

[Alcibiades73]

ORIGINAL: wobbleguts


Taking Gibraltar/Suez is a big game changer for the Axis.

What's the main benefit? Delaying US landing in Africa and thus Italy?

[wobbleguts]

ORIGINAL: Alcibiades73

ORIGINAL: wobbleguts


Taking Gibraltar/Suez is a big game changer for the Axis.

What's the main benefit? Delaying US landing in Africa and thus Italy?

If you take Gibraltar/Suez you have taken the Med. A few naval units and common sense will stop the allies coming back in and you can mop up any annoying left over allied units (land and sea) at your leisure.
It was a joint US/CW landing by the way, but the chances of it succeeding are v low if you control the Med. The only place they can really land is NW Algiers so you defend that small section of Atlantic coastline in force rather than the whole of Algiers. This means you can free up units for use elsewhere and breathe a sigh of relief. ie, Med sorted.

If you don't take Gibraltar, chances are a CW/US invasion fleet will sail into the med earlier than expected and annoy you by landing in undefended hexes.

As Germany, taking Malta/Egypt/Gibraltar is a priority for me as it blocks my 'soft underbelly', (which stops Italy from eventually changing sides) and allows me to gloat because they couldn't do it historically.

[Alcibiades73]

ORIGINAL: wobbleguts


If you take Gibraltar/Suez you have taken the Med. A few naval units and common sense will stop the allies coming back in and you can mop up any annoying left over allied units (land and sea) at your leisure.
It was a joint US/CW landing by the way, but the chances of it succeeding are v low if you control the Med. The only place they can really land is NW Algiers so you defend that small section of Atlantic coastline in force rather than the whole of Algiers. This means you can free up units for use elsewhere and breathe a sigh of relief. ie, Med sorted.

If you don't take Gibraltar, chances are a CW/US invasion fleet will sail into the med earlier than expected and annoy you by landing in undefended hexes.

As Germany, taking Malta/Egypt/Gibraltar is a priority for me as it blocks my 'soft underbelly', (which stops Italy from eventually changing sides) and allows me to gloat because they couldn't do it historically.

Hmm, you've almost persuaded me to try this, except that I feel I am not good enough to do with without roping in Spain as an ally. And that's an RNG thing - and even success has its risks (easier invasion route across the north Atlantic, for instance).

[wobbleguts]

ORIGINAL: Alcibiades73

ORIGINAL: wobbleguts


If you take Gibraltar/Suez you have taken the Med. A few naval units and common sense will stop the allies coming back in and you can mop up any annoying left over allied units (land and sea) at your leisure.
It was a joint US/CW landing by the way, but the chances of it succeeding are v low if you control the Med. The only place they can really land is NW Algiers so you defend that small section of Atlantic coastline in force rather than the whole of Algiers. This means you can free up units for use elsewhere and breathe a sigh of relief. ie, Med sorted.

If you don't take Gibraltar, chances are a CW/US invasion fleet will sail into the med earlier than expected and annoy you by landing in undefended hexes.

As Germany, taking Malta/Egypt/Gibraltar is a priority for me as it blocks my 'soft underbelly', (which stops Italy from eventually changing sides) and allows me to gloat because they couldn't do it historically.

Hmm, you've almost persuaded me to try this, except that I feel I am not good enough to do with without roping in Spain as an ally. And that's an RNG thing - and even success has its risks (easier invasion route across the north Atlantic, for instance).

Securing the Med doesn't make the allied invasion via the North Atlantic easier. It makes it much harder. The only place they can invade is the French coast but your troops have been redeployed from the now safe Med and can pick them off easily. A few naval units and maritime bombers positioned correctly will stop them even reaching the shore.

[ThunderLizard11]

Is this against AI? Never had someone take Gibraltar in MP unless they invaded Spain or flipped using diplo.

[DrZom]

ORIGINAL: wobbleguts


The only place they can invade is the French coast but your troops have been redeployed from the now safe Med and can pick them off easily. A few naval units and maritime bombers positioned correctly will stop them even reaching the shore.

Not so. The African coast on the Atlantic can still be invaded. No?

[Alcibiades73]

Brain fart. I took a nap when I read this thread just now.

Ignore

[wobbleguts]

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

Is this against AI? Never had someone take Gibraltar in MP unless they invaded Spain or flipped using diplo.

Yes, it's AI.

[wobbleguts]

ORIGINAL: DrZom

ORIGINAL: wobbleguts


The only place they can invade is the French coast but your troops have been redeployed from the now safe Med and can pick them off easily. A few naval units and maritime bombers positioned correctly will stop them even reaching the shore.

Not so. The African coast on the Atlantic can still be invaded. No?

Obviously, but please read my previous posts in this thread to understand how this conversation developed. I could have added 'because the NW Algiers Atlantic coast is now secured' in my latest response to Alcibiades but I thought that was already understood.