Fast route points

[stjeand]

Honestly I never checked...but it is clear these should only be for the Allies but the Axis can use them.

Can that be addressed in the next patch?

[ncc1701e]

Take us out of warp. Full impulse power. [:)]

[stjeand]

Well the Japanese used these to catch my US fleet...so I lost carriers...no longer a fair fight as I had them in trouble with their fleet out of position.

IF these were meant to be used by that Axis we need one next to Japan so that the US can get their quickly which we all know is not what is desired.

[AlvaroSousa]

How on earth did they catch you? You popout before they do and you run away.

[kennonlightfoot]

For some reason Japanese can't seem to spot fleets popping out of the transfer hexes but I suspected it so sent the main CV stack following. The thing the transfer hexes allows which wouldn't happen in movement is the fleet arrives with both its action points. The Allied fleet move to Colombo. My Combined Fleet popped out of the transfer hex with two action points. One to sail adjacent to Colombo and one to send two CV's to the bottom of the ocean.

These hexes allow to large of jump for one turn with no action point cost. It allows a fleet off Australia to quickly move to support India or US coast with no cost in action points. If they had to move by regular means it would take two turns to US and one turn for India but they would arrive with no action points.

Personally thing they should be eliminated. There is no need for them since unlike Europe where there is a continent that needs a means to go around, there is a clear ocean path for both sides to move from US from one side of the map to the other below or above Australia.

[stjeand]

How on earth did they catch you? You popout before they do and you run away.

I popped out and engaged a CVL fleet decimating India.
I knew the IJN CVs were not in the Indian Ocean so thought what do I have to lose.

I thought the points were just like WPE never dreamed that the IJN could use them. They are not in a spot that makes any sense for the IJN to make use of them.



I have NO issue with them existing...but it does not work for the Allies if the Axis can use them.

BUT if the IJN is going to be able to use them then there should be one that lands right next to Japan...Since this is devastating to the west coast. An massive invasion fleet could leave Rabaul and be there in one turn and the Allies would have no defense for that.

I may even test that. The Japanese should be able to have about 10 divisions to land on the west coast on what...turn 3?

[YueJin]

This is hilarious great thought stjeand, you absolutely can invade the US West coast in January 1941 using the warp point. If Santa Barbara and Morro Bay aren't garrisoned the US will fall almost for sure I think. Even if they are, landing an army and SNLF at LA seems to work. It's a very all in gamble obviously as you have to defend the ports from blockading by moving your carrier fleet in close enough for the US bombers to attack but you can bring two air superiority groups in immediately after landing to help out with that. The US emergency groups are decently strong but nothing that can't be handled once you've stuffed three armies and air support into the beachhead. LA and San Diego can supply most of the Japanese army and air force no problem.

I even ran the usual invasions of the DEI, Philippines, Rabaul, Solomons and blockaded Fiji/Nomea so the Allied player has no real way of knowing something is up.

How an invasion may look at the start of turn 5. I didn't play optimally on both sides but the concept seems very sound.

[stjeand]

I just tested it...It was ​a complete US collapse...

You take the oil and they are done for...no oil...no ships...no planes...no corps can attack...no armor can attack...it was complete disaster for the US.

Even if they garrison...you have the entire Japanese navy there...they are garrisoned with a division at best.

I invaded on turn 3...still taking the DEI...invading the Philippines and Rabual, you can hit other places the next turn with your small units which is what I normally do.

I moved the main CV fleet alone with the entire Japanese navy...2 fleets so I could give them an oiler and I had 6 CVs, 3CVLs and 20+ support ships.

I don't think it is a gamble...though would have to test it a few more times.


To fix this you either have to remove the fast points for the Axis or the US needs to get about 15 units and 200 oil if invaded...then they have a chance...but it will be a mess for a while.

[AlvaroSousa]

This is why I have wonderful players of WarPlan. They find the issues. So I added the following. Not sure if it will make it in the coming patch if they already created the package.

#####

Pearl Harbor - The Japanese player may not draw supply to any port in the Hawiian Islands if the Allies control any one of the following: Kwajalein, Truk, or Saipan.

East Australia - The Japanese player may not draw supply to any port East of and including Port Augusta if the Allies control Rabaul, Lae, or Port Moresby.

West Australia - The Japanese player may not draw supply to any port West of and including Darwin if the Allies control Batavia or Surabaya.

East India - The Japanese player may not draw supply to any port in East India if the Allies control Rangoon, Singapore, or Batavia.

West India - The Japanese player may not draw supply to any port in West India if the Allies control Jaffna or Colombo on the Island of Ceylon.

North American West Coast - The Japanese player may not draw supply to any port on the North American West Coast if Allies control Midway, Johnson Island, Kwajalein, Wake, Truk, or any port in the Hawaiian Islands.

I also moved the USA oil so it is better protected.
I also increased the loops to 2 turns.

[stjeand]

I don't think the Axis should have any supply in the ports in India based upon what I have been able to read online.


Reading about Japan and their abilities they did not have enough shipping to supply India at all, which was their issue. It would have had to travel over land.

East India will still fall easily...it will be invaded on turn 3 and have supply...nothing the Allies can do.
West will be harder as they have to take the island but still...very easy with their shipping. They can blockade the island easily.



Based on my current game...India will fall by June with no chance for the Allies to even move in the area.


No ports are left for bring troops in.
To many Japanese ships in the area.


Australia...the supply won't matter. They don't invade until they own all that.
Will have to see if the US can save them. Unlikely with the entire Japanese navy there and able to run back and forth to India in two turns.

Since the Japanese could supply Rabaul and such...I suspect they could have done so for Australia...but doubt they could supply every port. But I have not read much about the Koalas.


We can wait for the patch to test but I think there will have to be a house rule that says no invading India and Aus.


The US oil move is good.
The US West coast supply should be good.

[eskuche]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa
I also increased the loops to 2 turns.

[&o]

[kennonlightfoot]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

This is why I have wonderful players of WarPlan. They find the issues. So I added the following. Not sure if it will make it in the coming patch if they already created the package.

#####

Pearl Harbor - The Japanese player may not draw supply to any port in the Hawiian Islands if the Allies control any one of the following: Kwajalein, Truk, or Saipan.

East Australia - The Japanese player may not draw supply to any port East of and including Port Augusta if the Allies control Rabaul, Lae, or Port Moresby.

West Australia - The Japanese player may not draw supply to any port West of and including Darwin if the Allies control Batavia or Surabaya.

East India - The Japanese player may not draw supply to any port in East India if the Allies control Rangoon, Singapore, or Batavia.

West India - The Japanese player may not draw supply to any port in West India if the Allies control Jaffna or Colombo on the Island of Ceylon.

North American West Coast - The Japanese player may not draw supply to any port on the North American West Coast if Allies control Midway, Johnson Island, Kwajalein, Wake, Truk, or any port in the Hawaiian Islands.

I also moved the USA oil so it is better protected.
I also increased the loops to 2 turns.

I am not sure these changes will effect the Japanese when they are actually doing the things they are suppose to prevent (invading India and Australia).

Before they invade East India they usually have taken Rangoon, Singapore and Batavia. This is useful for taking a port to supply landing a force to take Calcutta from the rear and break the Burma line.

West India restriction probably does help since it will take a lot of time and LC's to take Jaffna and Columbo.

The NA West Cost rule will prevent the invasion of the West Coast but still leave the Japanese open to killing the US fleet stationed there or wherever it is.

Increasing the loops to 2 turns may make them a little harder to use for quick surprise attacks but they still can be used because they don't cost the user any operation points to go long distances. I think they should have been deleted entirely.

Example of using the Loops to kill the US fleet.

I ran this test hot seat just to see if it could be done. I don't think the 2 turn loops will stop it but that depends on spotting (whether the Allied player "sees" the Japanese fleet disappear into the hex off Australia or not.

After Pearl Harbor I sent the Japanese Carrier fleet to Rabaul to refuel. That takes two turns and means Japan will have Oilers by the time they make their move. Japanese subs are sent out to the US ports of 5+ size to see which one the US is going to hide them in until they get stronger. Odds are they will have to be in one of the two US 5+ ports since you want them where the two CV reinforcements come it.

From Rabault the Carrier Stack moves to the "West Coast" loop hex. Next turn or in future 2 turns they will pop out right off the West Coast with two Action Points. They move adjacent to whatever port the US fleet is in. In my test I used San Francisco with both Bomber units in and near by.

The move adjacent triggered on bomber to interdict with 1 hit against the Zuikaku.
It also triggered the US Fleet (now 4 CV's) to interdict as well. This is one of the gotchas when the US fleet is weak. The Japanese player can win just by triggering this interdiction. The resulting battle:
Lexinton Sunk
New Orleans CA sunk
13th DD sunk
Nevada BB 1 hit
For the Japanese
Hiryu CV 2 hits
Haruna BC sunk
Kongo BC 1 hit.

Then the Japanese fleet gets to make an air attack against the port.
Enterprise 2 hits
W. Va BB 1 hit
San Francisco CA 1 hit
27th DD 1 hit

The US fleet won't survive another round so they will have to run. The Japenese will give chase. The Japanese have oilers and all they have to do is watch 5+ ports. If they find the US fleet they can repeat above.

Possible solutions:
For sure eliminate Loop hexes, they really aren't needed by the Allies and just create holes in their defenses.
Put some AA guns in the West Coast cities and give the US some fighters early.

[eskuche]

How is US fleet interdicting while in port? That should not happen. And outside of that, IJN will not have recon to hit anything.

To be clear, I have found and reported in-port interdiction initiation but believe this should never happen.

[kennonlightfoot]

ORIGINAL: eskuche

How is US fleet interdicting while in port? That should not happen. And outside of that, IJN will not have recon to hit anything.

To be clear, I have found and reported in-port interdiction initiation but believe this should never happen.

Have no idea. I just moved my Japanese CV stack from its loop location off Bombay to adjacent to Colombo where the Allied player had moved his CV fleet and they made an interdiction attack against my stack. Which not surprisingly resulted in them losing two CV's and causing little damage. Then I made my Naval Air attack against them causing little damage. Didn't get a screen shot of it though.

If I get around to setting up a hot seat test of it I will get a screen shot.

[kennonlightfoot]

Quick little test. CV's will apparently do an interdiction if in port. Which is probably better than letting the enemy just pound them with air attacks while they are sitting in port doing nothing. But it does give the Japanese a way to trigger a battle before the US fleet can run so the Allied player is going to have to be careful about where they place there fleet. Any port can be attacked this way.

[AlvaroSousa]

I'll take a look myself and check it out.

[AlvaroSousa]

Looking at the map breifly... I see your points. If the Japanese are in Rabaul they can be on either end of the map in 1 move.

That does pose a problem. I'll remove the loops.

[ago1000]

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

Quick little test. CV's will apparently do an interdiction if in port. Which is probably better than letting the enemy just pound them with air attacks while they are sitting in port doing nothing. But it does give the Japanese a way to trigger a battle before the US fleet can run so the Allied player is going to have to be careful about where they place there fleet. Any port can be attacked this way.

Subs too. I reported it in an alternate thread. As if they are on patrol.

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