"Blitzkrieg landings" with not commissioned ships

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Not going to win a beauty contest against pretty much any other airplane. and the Uglofortress comment almost made me give back my bevvy. What did Glenn Martin do next? as it the Baltimore? Marketing guys must have said something along the lines of 'we cannot sell something that unattractive'.....

Isn't that why Boeing lost out to the F35 - looks?

PBM Mariner, Maryland, Marauder, Baltimore, and, under license, about 500 B-29s. Martin continued to receive military aircraft orders after 1945, which is more than you can say for Curtiss aircraft.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Limiting amphib operations to dedicated military shipping is about as dumb as limiting all fuel transport to tankers.

Time and time again I hear these so called rational arguments for limiting fuel shipping to tankers because no nation could have built enough fuel barrels to make it possible. They could and did. A nation capable of manufacturing hundreds of ships, thousands of airplanes, thousands of tanks and hundreds of thousands of trucks is just as capable of manufacturing millions of fuel barrels. They did. Try googling WWII Fuel Barrels and see how many pictures you can find of stacks of thousands upon thousands of them.

Non-military ships were used in amphib operations. Why should the game seek to not model history? No side, even the Americans, will ever have enough military transports to be able to accommodate the the second and third waves bringing support units. The game provides sufficient incentives to players to prioritize the use of military transports for first wave landings. There will always be a need to use non-military transports for follow up waves.

Sorry Hans, but then you don't get the difference between fuel, oil and supply in the game and I think you actually do though. Fuel is used to fuel BB Yamato and not a Zero. The "fuel" for a Zero is coming from a barrel (supply in the game), the fuel for Yamato is surely not coming from a barrel and no nation ever fueled real ships from barrels. You can fuel a PT boat from barrels but you can't fuel a tanker, freighter, transport, cruiser or battleships from barrels, no matter how much your nation has produced of this or that.

I'm not advocating for this hr in the game because I think it just won't work but it's the same with the xAP/xAK, they weren't used for amphib operations because they DIDN'T work for that kind of operation. And I'm not thinking about D-day +5, when people are talking about amphib operations they always think about the first wave in the game.

So are you really trying to tell me that every last size 1 port is equipped with massive fuel storage facilities wherein fuel can be pumped directly from tankers into them? How was the fuel used for shipping stored at minimal port facilities? Even if it arrived in a tanker it had to be transferred and stored somewhere.

You may be the people who see amphibious operations as "only the first wave", buy I have been a wargamer long enough to know that any 'rules lawyer' out there is gonna immediately see the impact of an HR that limits 'amphibious landings' to military transports as affecting the second and third waves as well. Some of us people see amphibious operations in a more holistic manner.

I can see that it was foolish of me to expect a mature discourse. The petty and childish references to me being stupid enough to think that a BB can be refueled from barrels is uncalled for. Try growing up. The fuel being carried in the barrels in the holds of non-tankers is delivered to port facilities, not transferred to other ships. It was a childish and petulant attempt to make me look stupid that only accomplished the reverse.

Lol, then just keep thinking that SHIPS were refulled by stuff that came in barrels. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong but in your world fuel for ships came in barrels on xAKs, was then transferred to the docks from where the ships were then refuelled?

Your quote literally made me laugh, especially the childish and grown up stuff. Guess the AI will come along very well with your rules, to each his own but saying Symon's proposal would be off is a good laugh.

I said I think it doesn't work well in the game but it would be most likely one of the most realistic hrs for the game. To each is own, for all others there is the none complaining AI after all. And as the majority is playing the AI anyways all is fine as it never complains about any rules.

[HansBolter]

It also doesn't ask for any House Rules because it feels slighted without them.

A far superior opponent.

I especially like the 'I'll take the high ground by claiming to allow each his own, but immediately follow with an enjoinder that negates the claim' approach.

You might wanna try sorting that out.

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Nonsense. With all due respect, but I believe your strong pro-Allied bias has left you blind on one eye. Über-Netties, Über-Zeros, overavailability of air-launched torpedoes, too much idle merchant shipping, insane Japanese R&D advancements, ridiculously high airframe production figures, the magic highway, China Blitzkrieg - just to name the most blatant examples - have all been complained about on the forum as being unhistorical or ahistorical - and justly so.

Interesting what scen are you talking about? Probably one of the fantasy ones, cause I do not see:
"Über-Netties, Über-Zeros,"
in a stock scen... I guess many ppl are just playing scens where some things are overpowered and then complain about the game, even if certainly it is not "the game" to blame but the mod used in such cases.

I agree with these (for the vanilla game not fantasy)

"overavailability of air-launched torpedoes" - True those were expensive for both sides
"too much idle merchant shipping" - True both sides

More split opionin on these:

"insane Japanese R&D advancements, ridiculously high airframe production figures" - Comes at a cost, but might be also more true. If Japan in real life had prepared better and made better priorites for raw materials and workforce maybe not so. SO 50/50 for this one.. EDIT I remeber a thread on here were someone compared real life WW2 IJ plane production to those easy possible in the game and guess what the figures in game were lower. BUT the frames produced were better then real life


"the magic highway" - Not true, seems to be corrected/nerfed in latest game version which I use.
"China Blitzkrieg" Not true, all depends on the leader imho. If you put your Chinese in open hexes, try to defend to many cities etc. well you might get a Blitzkrieg against you. Guess what tanks are not so effective in mountains and heavy forest..so you put your troops out in light terrain knowing they have not much AT and then get crushed and then... complain about "Blitzkrieg in China" -- see what I did there [:D]

I am going now OT in my own thread but we have already personal insults, beer and girls so who TF cares anymore about OT [;)]

[Shellshock]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77



I am going now OT in my own thread but we have already personal insults, beer and girls so who TF cares anymore about OT [;)]

Ja. Mehr Bier und Fraulein, bitte.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Nonsense. With all due respect, but I believe your strong pro-Allied bias has left you blind on one eye. Über-Netties, Über-Zeros, overavailability of air-launched torpedoes, too much idle merchant shipping, insane Japanese R&D advancements, ridiculously high airframe production figures, the magic highway, China Blitzkrieg - just to name the most blatant examples - have all been complained about on the forum as being unhistorical or ahistorical - and justly so.

Interesting what scen are you talking about? Probably one of the fantasy ones, cause I do not see:
"Über-Netties, Über-Zeros,"
in a stock scen... I guess many ppl are just playing scens where some things are overpowered and then complain about the game, even if certainly it is not "the game" to blame but the mod used in such cases.

I agree with these (for the vanilla game not fantasy)

"overavailability of air-launched torpedoes" - True those were expensive for both sides
"too much idle merchant shipping" - True both sides

More split opionin on these:

"insane Japanese R&D advancements, ridiculously high airframe production figures" - Comes at a cost, but might be also more true. If Japan in real life had prepared better and made better priorites for raw materials and workforce maybe not so. SO 50/50 for this one.. EDIT I remeber a thread on here were someone compared real life WW2 IJ plane production to those easy possible in the game and guess what the figures in game were lower. BUT the frames produced were better then real life


"the magic highway" - Not true, seems to be corrected/nerfed in latest game version which I use.
"China Blitzkrieg" Not true, all depends on the leader imho. If you put your Chinese in open hexes, try to defend to many cities etc. well you might get a Blitzkrieg against you. Guess what tanks are not so effective in mountains and heavy forest..so you put your troops out in light terrain knowing they have not much AT and then get crushed and then... complain about "Blitzkrieg in China" -- see what I did there [:D]

I am going now OT in my own thread but we have already personal insults, beer and girls so who TF cares anymore about OT [;)]

Remember that the initial pilots for the Japanese Navy were highly trained plus they were being used against somewhat inferior aircraft with not as highly trained aircrew as well.

Yes, as I previously pointed out, there are no more fights between the IJA and the IJN plus the planning is coordinated. Not to mention the coordination of information among the disparate Japanese organizations is perfect. This is also true for the Allies who can place a higher priority into the CBI/SEAC theatres as well.

The game used the have torpedoes available for every base force but now for only the Air HQs. The torpedoes also cost 10 units of supplies - that is ten tons! No torpedoes were that heavy so that is a significant cost compared to using bombs which may actually be better against some targets since of the the targets are highly vulnerable to bomb hits and the aircraft generally carry more bombs so there is a greater chance of damaging said target.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Shellshock

ORIGINAL: Alpha77



I am going now OT in my own thread but we have already personal insults, beer and girls so who TF cares anymore about OT [;)]

Ja. Mehr Bier und Fraulein, bitte.

Sehr gut!

[Alpha77]

Yeah agreed the torp issue is not very serious anymore I can live with what we have now.

Does anyone know if torps can be somehow rescued from isolated islands ? I mean where normal cargo / transport missions are not possible anymore if the enemy has air superiority for example. Can they transported by air, cause I tried this already but it seems the support squads are lifted but not the torps. 50 torps left behind = 500 supply[:(]

Guess I am totally out here - so also an OT beer pic from me [;)] Am I now "Willkommen im Club"? Or does it need boobs etc. too?

[Alpha77]

How about music OT posts:

[RangerJoe]

I suggest that you delete that last picture!

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I suggest that you delete that last picture!

You LIKE Nickelback ? [X(]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

How about music OT posts:

That is beside the point.

[Alpha77]

Well to each his own, right [:D]

I mean I also listen to "cheesy" 90ties dance/rave music. However it is "party and good mood" music not music like N.back trying to be serious rock (or alternative) but is weakass as fuck. [:D]

BOOM BOOM I want you in my room: [;)]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llyiQ4I-mcQ

(no, not you Joe)

But to add, from a technical electronic music standpoint the "Vengaboys" were quite good, it has good drums and valid basslines combined with catchy vox and hot chixx. So what is not to like ? [:)] But I also like more serious electro like dark techno or industrial for sure

[Ian R]

Well she-it, how's about some Black Label Society? Maybe everyone needs to suck it up a bit on this thread.

PS - The magic highway works perfectly well for the allies delivering supply to 20 AF in 1944, I'm not sure what the complaint is, really.

Grab a brew men, and sit back with me ...

Black Label

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Well to each his own, right [:D]

I mean I also listen to "cheesy" 90ties dance/rave music. However it is "party and good mood" music not music like N.back trying to be serious rock (or alternative) but is weakass as fuck. [:D]

BOOM BOOM I want you in my room: [;)]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llyiQ4I-mcQ

(no, not you Joe)

But to add, from a technical electronic music standpoint the "Vengaboys" were quite good, it has good drums and valid basslines combined with catchy vox and hot chixx. So what is not to like ? [:)] But I also like more serious electro like dark techno or industrial for sure

[:-]

[Ian R]

By the way, Zaak Wilde is an accomplishment classical musician.

Believe

Edit - on the side, like.

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Well to each his own, right [:D]

I mean I also listen to "cheesy" 90ties dance/rave music. However it is "party and good mood" music not music like N.back trying to be serious rock (or alternative) but is weakass as fuck. [:D]

BOOM BOOM I want you in my room: [;)]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llyiQ4I-mcQ

(no, not you Joe)

But to add, from a technical electronic music standpoint the "Vengaboys" were quite good, it has good drums and valid basslines combined with catchy vox and hot chixx. So what is not to like ? [:)] But I also like more serious electro like dark techno or industrial for sure

Something new romantic for you:

Cultish

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I suggest that you delete that last picture!

You LIKE Nickelback ? [X(]

Mention of or picturing any political figures is likely to get you banned from the forum. RJ is trying to help you with that suggestion.

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I suggest that you delete that last picture!

You LIKE Nickelback ? [X(]

Mention of or picturing any political figures is likely to get you banned from the forum. RJ is trying to help you with that suggestion.

I thought that fitted in the fair satire exception, but sorry Alpha, I'm not in charge.

PS - You're wrong about the Matilda.

[Ian R]

Also - I was there for this. Glory days.

Lucky Country