Axis winter supply (and super-depots)

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loki100
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Utlima Thule

Axis winter supply (and super-depots)

Post by loki100 »

There is a lot of discussion on how the supply system is meant to work but not much on how it actually does work out in practice.

So I've take 4 AARs (3 are public) for the axis T32. This is prob as bad as it gets in the winter sequence in that deep snow and Soviet gains will have created all sorts of problems.

Of the 4 games, mine is the only one where I consistently use super depots. 2 are vs AI (carlkay and tm1), my front line is by far the furthest west, the other MP game is by far the furthest east for most of the front line.

2 of the games (mine and carlkay) are by people who have been around this a few times but have very different ideas as to how to get the system to work. The other 2 are at this stage for the first time.

For 3 of the games, I've shown allocations by army, the other just the total ground allocation. In each game the Axis armies are roughly in the same positions but esp 4 Pzr A is very differently configured.

If any one else wants to offer their equivalent table (& some idea of their approach), I'd be happy to include it

While its a bit of a dubious calculation I've added supply+freight+replacements to get a single figure.

So what are we left with?

a) if carlkay says something about logistics design - listen to him
b) despite some claims, 'super-depots' don't bring excess freight east, they simply reshuffle what would have arrived (I'm stressing this as there is a bit of a head of steam on this topic)
c) player choices seem to be important - I get more freight relative to the other criteria that the others
d) trying to cling to terrain east of Vyazma and past Stalino (game 4) really hurts.



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carlkay58
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Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:30 pm

RE: Axis winter supply (and super-depots)

Post by carlkay58 »

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Super Depots are great at concentrating supply delivery to a specific spot of the front. But in doing so it distorts the deliveries to the rest of the front. So you can keep the 2nd and 3rd PGs thrust moving but the rest of the front suffers for it. The question is whether the ability to concentrate the supplies into a narrow spot is realistic or not.

wkuh
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 6:02 pm

RE: Axis winter supply (and super-depots)

Post by wkuh »

Realistic or useful? There's a difference. What would explain,"unrealistic?"
carlkay58
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Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:30 pm

RE: Axis winter supply (and super-depots)

Post by carlkay58 »

I would say that my opinion of Super Depots is that it is unrealistic. I don't think you can essentially re-route all of the supplies in a large section of the front to a single depot and overload what the normal logistics for that depot would be. I could be wrong but I don't think there is a historical example backing this up. Super Depots came into being to be a quick solution to a problem with the late war Soviet logistics with a large army. The rail net from the Soviet National Supply Sources is just not good enough to carry the amount of supplies necessary for 6 million plus armed forces. I think extending their use to the Axis in 41 is not a good idea - it allows things to be done that should not be able to be done by the Axis. I even think that the current system without Super Depots is fairly forgiving to the Axis to begin with. So a personal opinion only - I am not the designer nor any other person in Matrix Games - I am just a play tester.

I will note that Loki's analysis states that my supply net functions better than the ones that do use the Super Depots and leave it at that! :)
OberGeneral
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Location: Canada

RE: Axis winter supply (and super-depots)

Post by OberGeneral »

I agree with your assessment and it is a little gamey having it for the Axis side.
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