Bug or Feature II

panda124c · Post by **panda124c** » Thu Jun 08, 2000 2:14 am

I'm having a simular problem with my American's vs Germans in the Campain. After the last turn in the first game of the campain I am taken directly to choosing support units for the next sceinario no chance to repair units. Also the non-core units are still listed and using human deployment all the units are in the same position as the last turn of the previous game, including across the boundry lines. Is the new patch going to fix this????

Originally posted by Greybear:
Paul, I started a long campaign Br v Ge, 9/39 , 1200 point limit (2800 pts is way too many units). 4 th battle: is it a "Bug" or a "Feature" that all my support units keep being added to my core? Also have seen the rebuild bug: two chances to rebuild. One more thing the AI has yet to buy any armor.

[This message has been edited by pbear (edited 06-07-2000).]

Wittmann44 · Post by **Wittmann44** » Thu Jun 08, 2000 7:25 am

I have had many bugs. First, in a campaign game, ammo doesn't reload.

Damage of some types is repaired, like suspension damage, but gun optics isn't repaired.

The crew bug that others have discussed.

Assigning any unit to the A0 unit kills the subordinate.

Pressing the mission button in the purchase screen hangs the game.

First battle in a campaign is frequently a spitting match; I get the tanks that can't shoot straight. Same crews (the ones that live) do much better in the following battles.

I find that the Russian tanks hit mine with low percentage shots (10-15%) more frequently than they should (about one of eight should be the average, one in three is the actual) while my tanks miss with medium to high percentage shots (45-65%) which should hit half the time, but miss more often than hit.

The AI is much different than before; sometimes this is a welcome challenge (as in Russian tanks move for flank shots rather than frontal) but this sometimes leads to ridiculous results (as in a night+rain low visibility engagment where the lead tanks engage from the front, and the following ones try to surround my forward tank, even to the point of opening their flanks to easy shots from my supporting tanks).

The AI is almost too aggressive. One battle was more like a mass tank mugging than a attack. The Russian went to the nearest objective hex, then ganged up on the first unit to fire at him, like an army of mindless Terminators looking for Sarah Connor!
Oh! Killed that one, on to the next! Sarah Connnor? Boom! Boom! Boom!

The computer didn't molest any of my other forces, even those that were slipping past his armored spearhead and shooting him in the back. I was able to pick on his flanks and attrit his attack, but he didn't slow his pace of advance until he ran out of armor.

The AI doesn't recognize fire sacks or kill zones. The AI doesn't use suppressive fire or bounding overwatch. It recognizes shadows and defiles, but doesn't use them right. It pushes tanks by the bunch into a defile; then I hit them with concentrated fire as they emerge, like Butch and Sundance coming out of a Bolivian bank.

The computer should recognize that it should withdraw, even as few as a hex or two, and then emerge when sufficient forces are there to suppress my waiting units.

Wittmann44 · Post by **Wittmann44** » Thu Jun 08, 2000 7:45 am

Oh, before its said that all I do is complain, I want to say:

I love this game!
<bgsound src="http://www.wavsite.com/sounds/stripes/stripes19.wav">

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Thu Jun 08, 2000 8:07 am

The bugs are mostly fixed in the patch. As to teh AHHHnold like AI, try PBEM?

The AI is better...in 7 or 10 years we might have AI that can do combined Arms and recognize fire sacks and that, but if i figure out how to do that, I will sell it to the Army and make big bucks

Arralen · Post by **Arralen** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 1:33 pm

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
The bugs are mostly fixed in the patch. As to teh AHHHnold like AI, try PBEM?

The AI is better...in 7 or 10 years we might have AI that can do combined Arms and recognize fire sacks and that, but if i figure out how to do that, I will sell it to the Army and make big bucks

Just my 0,02 EU of thoughts:

Assign a "thread value" to each hex - just store the damage done to a unit in hex, and add it "virtually" to the movement costs emidiatly.
This way a squad killed in a hex will make this hex cost 8..12 points more (or maybe put a divisor in ..), and the next unit will avoid this hex and go around it.

Decrease the "thread value" each turn depending on situation:

* enemy units sighted with LOS to this hex
* own units moving in adjacent hexes
* enemy unit that killed own is subject to suppression fire

Combined arms attack:
If you can get the "move whole formation" to work in a sensible way, couldn't even the AI use this routines?
Then you must only add some "move formation together"-routines, and you're there

Ok ok I know it this reads much more easy than it is to code this, but I think this could be done ..

No, my programming experience is restricted to some ancient basic dialects (8 bit !!) and Fortran (Unix, VMS), so I can't help with the actual coding

Arralen

Dean Robb · Post by **Dean Robb** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 8:34 pm

Originally posted by Wittmann44:
The computer didn't molest any of my other forces, even those that were slipping past his armored spearhead and shooting him in the back. I was able to pick on his flanks and attrit his attack, but he didn't slow his pace of advance until he ran out of armor.

I've noticed this, too. The AI doesn't honor the threat or respond properly to it. No attempts to outflank the human or bypass strongpoints to take them in the rear. No response to attacks into it's flank or rear.

Unfortunately, the fix would take some SERIOUS code work so it's not likely to be changed any time soon.

Charles22 · Post by **Charles22** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 9:04 pm

Dean: You just haven't seen it yet. I've had numerous flanking attempts that the enemy responded to, and in fact, on one occassion half his army had a fit and abandoned their entrenched positions, some falling back, a smaller amount advancing, and about half of the ones who moved DIRECTLY going after my Special OPS attack to one of his objecitve areas. That isn't to say that I haven't had flanks which haven't been responded to, but they have responded at least in some form at times, on more than one occassion. Perhaps the AI responds more immediately, when he has a defensive mission, and you threaten objectives. It does seem as though ALL of his responses to my flanks attmepts, have been when he was playing defensive.

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 9:21 pm

Originally posted by Wittmann44:

...
The computer didn't molest any of my other forces, even those that were slipping past his armored spearhead and shooting him in the back. I was able to pick on his flanks and attrit his attack, but he didn't slow his pace of advance until he ran out of armor.
...

AFAIK there is only one AI set up while various nationalities have different combat doctrines. What you described would be very realistic for a Soviet or Japanese armored spearhead but unlikely for a US or British.
I suppose that this is a limitation of the amount of programing and file sizes availible (not enough time or disc space for a "national style" AI module for each nation involved).

------------------
An old soldier but not yet a faded one.
OK, maybe just a bit faded.

Six-pk · Post by **Six-pk** » Sat Jun 10, 2000 4:01 am

Here is a bug: (btw I didn't read this whole topic so I'm hopeing I'm not repeating a post)

Your immobilized vehicle can turn if you right click on an enemy unit. It will face the unit clicked!

Six

[This message has been edited by Six-pk (edited 06-09-2000).]