Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

WarPlan Pacific is an operational level wargame which covers all the nations at war in the Pacific theatre from December 1941 to 1945 on a massive game scale.

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Platoonist
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by Platoonist »

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

Admiral's Edition? How many hours did that take?

Hours? I'd have to go by months. Nine months in all against the AI. The global pandemic probably helped in that regard as I was laid-off for three of those months, house-bound without much to do.

Things got sloppy towards the end. With victory obviously in sight, I just started packing troops across the Pacific willy-nilly as fast as I could to capture high VP cities in Honshu. What was left of the AI Imperial Japanese Navy had taken to hiding in port and wasn't much of a threat.




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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by jmlima »

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

Japan never thought it could win a clear cut military victory against the US.

...

I think this is the key for the good boardgames is that they give Japan the possibility, albeit remote, of a political victory. You are not playing for military victory but political stale-mate. One of the issues to consider is that the political stale-mate also relied on factors outside the PTO.

Now, if a game gives Japan a clear route to a military victory then, yeah, HoI territory.
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by AlvaroSousa »

Next patch will address some issues. It is coming soon. It is already being built.
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by eskuche »

How long it take matrix to put it together? Sounds like you gave them a patch three weeks ago and can still make changes to it [:D]
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by FirstPappy »

ORIGINAL: eskuche

How long it take matrix to put it together? Sounds like you gave them a patch three weeks ago and can still make changes to it [:D]
I think someone in an earlier post alluded to the lights were on but nobody home. [;)]
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by AlvaroSousa »

The Amazon server they were using went down. There was a big internet crash today.

Remember that Matrix deals with a ton of developers that need constant attention. Some patch way more than I do. Then there are new games that come out.

They need to patch every game twice... once for Matrix, once for Steam.
Then it is tested by the developer to make sure there aren't any corruptions or screw ups.

It's a long process to ensure things go smoothly and correctly.

The files were given a week ago. Takes a couple weeks as I am part of a queue
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by eskuche »

Tell VR gaming to stop patching so much!
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by kennonlightfoot »

The Amazon server they were using went down. There was a big internet crash today.

Probably didn't renew their Amazon Prime membership to get two day turn around.
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by Nikel »

The second patch is online now.
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by Steely Glint »

Well, since we seem to agree that the game is historically unbalanced in favor of Japan, how do we get this fixed?
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by kennonlightfoot »

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

Well, since we seem to agree that the game is historically unbalanced in favor of Japan, how do we get this fixed?

Japanese are able to do some things they historically couldn't accomplish during the first six months of the war, but I haven't seen enough AAR's or played the game long enough to know if they can have better than average odds of winning. Things may quickly swing the other way in 43. It takes a lot of games to determine balance.
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by Steely Glint »

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

Now tell the truth.
Has anyone ever finished a War in the Pacific Admiral Edition game?

Yes. It was worth it, but I would never do it again.
“It was a war of snap judgments and binary results—shoot or don’t, live or die.“

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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by ThunderLizard11 »

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

Japan never thought it could win a clear cut military victory against the US. They only had to last until the US got tired and made peace.

The US does economically overpower the Japanese but the US also had a much larger war going on in Europe.

Japan made a huge number of tactical and strategic mistakes so it is entirely possible they could have out lasted the US with better handling.

So this is a game of can I do better than historical. Almost all WW II games are this type. Just with some a real victory is possible but not always.

Japan should not have attack the US at all but instead have focused on taking out the European's SE Asian colonies. US likely would not have intervened or at least not as aggressively as they did after being attacked. Not sure how this is modeled in game but it's a key strategic pivot point that could have resulted in Japan "winning".
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by aspqrz02 »

Nice idea, but it requires the Japanese High Command to be a) mind readers and b) not have trust issues.

The problem was that, to take the colonial possessions in SE Asia, the Japanese had to sail past and around the Philippines ... well within range of US Naval and Air Forces and their bases.

Now, if they KNEW the US wouldn't intervene, fine. But since the US had been participating in embargoes against Japan over the Japanese invasion of China, they had to strongly suspect that the US WOULD react ... and NOT react favourably.

And, anyway, they'd have to trust the US to NOT react ... good luck with getting the Jap High Command to do that!

It really doesn't matter whether the US would have reacted, or how they might have reacted, or on what timetable they might have reacted, the Japanese had no option but to plan that they WOULD react ... and that meant they would know that being caught flat footed while their limited shipping and logistic assets were occupied elsewhere AND vulnerable to US intervention was NEVER an option.

Hence the bombing of Pearl and the invasion of the Phillipines.

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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by kennonlightfoot »

Well, did a short (surrendered on May 25th) game as Allied against eskuche with house rule not to use Loops.

Mostly demonstrated that the Allies have no way to respond to Japanese advance in South Pacific, and India and Australia. These areas are virtually all taken before the Allies have the ability to move troops to garrison or enough CV's to challenge landings.

Without the Australia Loop it takes the US to long to move troops by sea to have any effect on stopping Australia from being overrun. I can't of course "see" the situation on the Japanese side but based on the movements they never had a problem producing enough oil to keep most of their navy and air active during the first six months or provide enough Landing Craft for any invasions they needed to support or cut off Allied defenses.

First the problem of command sea.

Of course the US doesn't have enough carriers to take on the Japanese fleet head on. Historically they just picked away at the fringes. But in the game there are no maintenance issues or oil shortages for the Japanese. They can produce enough oilers to keep their six CV's continuously at sea. This gives them the ability to gobble up islands in the South Pacific by blockade and unopposed landings. If the US response to break the blockades then the combination of 6 CV's, land based air, and BB's will take it out.

They are able to dominate the air in the South Pacific because of the ease of taking the major Islands (and their VP). All were taken if just a few turns.

The US can't attempt to snip at the edges of the less important islands because they apparently have almost no intel on Japanese movements. Only during the first month or so when the CV's were in Rabual did I have knowledge of there location. For the rest of 42 they disappeared except when they attacked my fleets. I thought the game would favor the US on "knowing" where the enemy is but apparently as long as their CV's stay at sea they are invisible.

This lead to a second major problem. Transporting troops.

By May 1st when the US gets its first transport, the Japanese have taken Naumea and Fiji (by Jan 18th). This gives them air coverage of the South Pacific and bases to support their fleets. Without the Loop the US has to put together either large escort fleets or run the transported unit along the bottom edge of the map. With nothing blocking them it takes 3 turns to get o Sydney. With even minor blocking or threat to intercept it takes 4-5 turns to cross. That means the first reinforcement can't reach Sydney until April 26th or later. The second division reinforcement can't even start until Mar 29th with an arrival around May 25th or later. That is to long for Australian units to hold out.

India probably can hold out by just putting everything to defend Bombay and watch the rest of India be overrun. Every attempt I mad to slow the advance just resulted in the Japanese army size units killing the Indian divisions. They rarely retreated. The problem with this is India is the only UK country capable of producing enough infantry to fight the Japanese. Losing their population bases will take them out of the war for all practical purposes. And, if the Japanese get air bases close enough to the Indian trade routes they can start killing off the UK merchant fleet.

So I suspect the first year of the war under version 2 using no Loops is still badly broken.

Here is a screen shot of the situation in Australia May 10th. I committed the US fleets to try to reverse the situation. That just got the US fleet sunk. The next turn they had enough Landing Craft to make landings along the entire southern coast of Australia. Surrounding Sydney and blockading everything. Only one US division made it to Australia. The rest are stuck in New Zealand. The only thing that actually slows the Japanese down is weather. I guess if there are enough heavy rain turns the Allies might do better.



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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by stjeand »

Australia can be saved I think...Just keep a supply source and get a US corp there...Japan will have trouble with that...BUT that is easier said than done with no navy.

India is the one that will not be able to be.

It would take a good 4 turns to get US units there safely...and by then Japan would own all the ports so they would have to invade.
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by CrackingShow »

Why were you not using the fast travel points?
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by stjeand »

OH you can...but they are being removed so...using that as a house rule makes sense.

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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by CrackingShow »

Oh I didn't know it was confirmed they are going bye bye.

HMMMMM not sure how Allies win in that case.
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

Post by kennonlightfoot »

It appears the one to Australia will be needed unless something else is done to keep the Japanese from making sea movement from US to Australia look like running a gauntlet. But something will also have to be done to keep the Japanese from using it to raid the West Coast.
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