Message for Ralph Tricky

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
We could use some of those supporters who are willing to wait over four years without getting anything but talk.

I understand that you are in an awkward position, but the fact is that, for instance in the forum for that other game, the dev explains what he's working on now, why the delays with development, prognosis, etc. While substantively really not very information is provided, you at least get the feeling that the dev (1) cares about the project and 2) is sharing whatever he knows.

Meanwhile, you are apparently unable to say anything other than that the game is being worked on; but there has been no news for years on key issues such as what if Ralph's involvement at this point, if any? What are Matrix's plans for the game? What features are being worked on? Is there a realistic prospect of further development?

From what you say, discussion of these topics is not up to you, but that does not make the almost complete lack of info (and lack of visible progress) less frustrating...Ralph, Matrix, or both should post on this forum to tell us what is going on (or permit you to do so). Please tell us who to contact at Matrix on these topics, and I'm sure many of us will do so (just pls don't tell us to contact Bart, who AFAIK has not ever graced this forum with his presence).

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
We could use some of those supporters who are willing to wait over four years without getting anything but talk.

I understand that you are in an awkward position, but the fact is that, for instance in the forum for that other game, the dev explains what he's working on now, why the delays with development, prognosis, etc. While substantively really not very information is provided, you at least get the feeling that the dev (1) cares about the project and 2) is sharing whatever he knows.

Meanwhile, you are apparently unable to say anything other than that the game is being worked on; but there has been no news for years on key issues such as what if Ralph's involvement at this point, if any? What are Matrix's plans for the game? What features are being worked on? Is there a realistic prospect of further development?

From what you say, discussion of these topics is not up to you, but that does not make the almost complete lack of info (and lack of visible progress) less frustrating...Ralph, Matrix, or both should post on this forum to tell us what is going on (or permit you to do so). Please tell us who to contact at Matrix on these topics, and I'm sure many of us will do so (just pls don't tell us to contact Bart, who AFAIK has not ever graced this forum with his presence).

We've had this information:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4869825

Otherwise, the Matrix rationale for not talking about developments too far in advance wasn't just a prohibition. It made sense for good reasons.

TOAW IV is for sale now. Spouting about features that may never see daylight could turn out to be deceptive. That project is not for sale yet (so far as I know).

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Otherwise, the Matrix rationale for not talking about developments too far in advance wasn't just a prohibition. It made sense for good reasons.

But the issue extends beyond "not talking about developments"...Matrix has not confirmed that there are actually any plans to release further developments, or how/if they intend to deal with reinforcing the programming team in Ralph's absence. Given that, as you say, all of this is Matrix's decision, their complete silence on these issues for years now does not inspire confidence.

[parmenio]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

We've had this information:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4869825

Otherwise, the Matrix rationale for not talking about developments too far in advance wasn't just a prohibition. It made sense for good reasons.

TOAW IV is for sale now. Spouting about features that may never see daylight could turn out to be deceptive. That project is not for sale yet (so far as I know).

Well maybe rather than not talking about nice shiny new features, there could be talk about fixing existing issues like this one...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5039028

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

But the issue extends beyond "not talking about developments"...Matrix has not confirmed that there are actually any plans to release further developments, or how/if they intend to deal with reinforcing the programming team in Ralph's absence. Given that, as you say, all of this is Matrix's decision, their complete silence on these issues for years now does not inspire confidence.

I think with TOAW in particular it's sensible to simply assume there will be no further developments. Take or leave the game as it is. That way, there's a limit to how much disappointment you'll experience.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: parmenio
Well maybe rather than not talking about nice shiny new features, there could be talk about fixing existing issues like this one...

Yes, that is part of the issue. So there is some grand set of new but unspecified features which are being worked on, but no bug fixes will be released until those feature are complete, if ever. Bob's told us he's not even working on the bugs at this point. So no bug fixes on the horizon.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
I think with TOAW in particular it's sensible to simply assume there will be no further developments. Take or leave the game as it is. That way, there's a limit to how much disappointment you'll experience.

+1

Given the current state of afairs the community is powerless to have any impact whatsoever in the games future so what GD advises is the only sane course. Anything else is just banging your head against a brick wall. This thread bears that out.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: parmenio

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

We've had this information:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4869825

Otherwise, the Matrix rationale for not talking about developments too far in advance wasn't just a prohibition. It made sense for good reasons.

TOAW IV is for sale now. Spouting about features that may never see daylight could turn out to be deceptive. That project is not for sale yet (so far as I know).

Well maybe rather than not talking about nice shiny new features, there could be talk about fixing existing issues like this one...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5039028

Whatever that issue is (all of a sudden the .40 update can't be installed? Really?), it's an issue for Matrix, not me.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Yes, that is part of the issue. So there is some grand set of new but unspecified features which are being worked on, but no bug fixes will be released until those feature are complete, if ever. Bob's told us he's not even working on the bugs at this point. So no bug fixes on the horizon.

Nothing will be released until both features and fixes are finished. So, what difference does it make to the public which is coded first?!

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
I think with TOAW in particular it's sensible to simply assume there will be no further developments. Take or leave the game as it is. That way, there's a limit to how much disappointment you'll experience.

+1

Given the current state of afairs the community is powerless to have any impact whatsoever in the games future so what GD advises is the only sane course. Anything else is just banging your head against a brick wall. This thread bears that out.

These are both from insiders who should know better. Clearly, Lobster has now shifted into full sabotage mode.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Nothing will be released until both features and fixes are finished. So, what difference does it make to the public which is coded first?!

Well, that's the issue, isn't it? Why not fix bugs first in a patch--the pretty much universal approach among computer games--before adding new features? Especially when, as you have said, there is only one programmer now?

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


These are both from insiders who should know better.

I'm aware you're working on the game. However, to play or design for the game based on a hypothetical future feature or fix- even if I knew such a thing was planned- seems like a pathway to disappointment to me, given the bumpy development history of the game to date.

To be clear: I've worked on TOAW IV scenario design quite a lot over the last year. This puts me firmly in the "take it" rather than the "leave it" camp. If I wasn't, then it would be singularly pointless for me to be on this forum at all.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
I think with TOAW in particular it's sensible to simply assume there will be no further developments. Take or leave the game as it is. That way, there's a limit to how much disappointment you'll experience.

+1

Given the current state of afairs the community is powerless to have any impact whatsoever in the games future so what GD advises is the only sane course. Anything else is just banging your head against a brick wall. This thread bears that out.

These are both from insiders who should know better. Clearly, Lobster has now shifted into full sabotage mode.

Right because I'm the only one saying that. We will all be dead, including you, before we get a bug fix patch unless Ralph returns and saves the day. You said the new features and the fixes will be released at the same time. And the feature list is extensive. Very much so.

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Nothing will be released until both features and fixes are finished. So, what difference does it make to the public which is coded first?!

Being an 'insider' I know what you have planned. So what GD says is fairly true. BTW, notice he said that and I agreed. So is he a sabateur also? And the others who said basically the same thing. More sabateurs? So now we are a group of sabateurs and software pirates.

BTW, I would rather be a sabateur and software pirate with this fine group of people than a volunteer helping you any day of the week.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

BTW, notice he said that and I agreed. So is he a sabateur also?

I would like to take this opportunity to distance myself from Mr. Lobster...

I like to think I have a fairly neutral stance here: I have no expectations of further development, nevertheless I appreciate Bob is putting in a lot of really quite thankless work to do what he feels will make the game better, and I'll be grateful for any improvements that do result from that effort- I'm simply not relying on them doing so.

[Lobster]

But that makes you a sabateur by Bob's standards. I've said the same thing. [:'(]

I've also said I appreicate the work Bob has done. If anyone bothered to pay attention they would know that I've been concerned by a lack of work force. If you would ignore Bob's deflections you would know that. [8|]

Regardless of what anyone thinks of me I regard this community as a whole as one of the best. [;)]

BTW, more deflections and name calling incoming. It's what Bob does best.

[Zovs]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Nothing will be released until both features and fixes are finished. So, what difference does it make to the public which is coded first?!

If there are at least 2-4 developers working on the software then it does make some difference.

If the team only has two developers then one can work on the bugs and the other on feature enhancements (but this scenario would be counter productive, i.e. a waste of resources, both should be working on bug fixes before any enhancements to the software)

If the team has four developers one team of two can go work on bugs and the other two can go work on enhancements.

If there is only one developer then ideally he should be knocking out all the bugs first before implementing any feature work.

This is pretty much an industry standard.

I know I have been a professional software engineer since 1998.

[Peresvet]

Nothing will be released until both features and fixes are finished.

No doubt, the new features will initially contain bugs as well. With such approach, there's no hope the new features will become bug-free in my lifetime...

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Nothing will be released until both features and fixes are finished. So, what difference does it make to the public which is coded first?!

Well, that's the issue, isn't it? Why not fix bugs first in a patch--the pretty much universal approach among computer games--before adding new features? Especially when, as you have said, there is only one programmer now?

As I've said repeatedly, if every little thing has priority over new features there never will be any new features. For once, new features have priority. Since both will be released at the same time, what does it matter to the public which is addressed first internally.

Pointless to estimate coding time to anything. But, as I've posted elsewhere, the current update was divided into four parts. Three of those parts are finished, and a significant fraction of the fourth is as well. That, of course, doesn't say anything about how much longer will be required, but, statements from insiders that it's hopeless to expect it ever to be finished border on sabotage - depending upon how frequently they visit the DB.

Everybody should be inspired by those kickstarters for that other project: If they can wait over four years with nothing but talk for their money, surely TOAW lovers can wait far less - with the game in their hands - for a more fulsome update than ever before.

[Zovs]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Nothing will be released until both features and fixes are finished. So, what difference does it make to the public which is coded first?!

Well, that's the issue, isn't it? Why not fix bugs first in a patch--the pretty much universal approach among computer games--before adding new features? Especially when, as you have said, there is only one programmer now?

As I've said repeatedly, if every little thing has priority over new features there never will be any new features. For once, new features have priority. Since both will be released at the same time, what does it matter to the public which is addressed first internally.

Pointless to estimate coding time to anything. But, as I've posted elsewhere, the current update was divided into four parts. Three of those parts are finished, and a significant fraction of the fourth is as well. That, of course, doesn't say anything about how much longer will be required, but, statements from insiders that it's hopeless to expect it ever to be finished border on sabotage - depending upon how frequently they visit the DB.

Everybody should be inspired by those kickstarters for that other project: If they can wait over four years with nothing but talk for their money, surely TOAW lovers can wait far less - with the game in their hands - for a more fulsome update than ever before.

Your in error, see post #116

[Zovs]

Just to repeat. In all software ventures, the developers always fix all know bugs first, there is really no point in moving forward with new features that will undoubtly contain more bugs. A basic software engineering principle for over 60+ years.