Best Barbarossa scenario?

[BigDuke66]

Gentlemen,
as tomorrow we have the 80th anniversary "Operation Barbarossa", what is the best Barbarossa scenario for:
A. Human versus Human
B. Human(German) versus AI(Russian)

At least under CoW it was pretty clear that McBride's DNO was the best for HuH by far, but is that still true for today under TOAWIV?

[Hellen_slith]

IMHO

for human v human, FitE1 or FitE2 (FitE1 is less daunting, but heavy favor Soviet I think

for human v Russian PO, either D21 or the Russo-German War. I think there was one before D21, cannot remember name.

DNO: wanting to give that one a go. Can't go wrong with a scene from DM!

[BigDuke66]

I guess I should have been more precise. Operation Barbarossa is the part that the emphasis should lay on. Sure are FitE and D21 the once if you want to go for the complete East Front show, but Barbarossa isn't the schwerpunkt of these scenarios.

[Zovs]

Larry's B41 sure is a heck of a lot of fun.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

I guess I should have been more precise. Operation Barbarossa is the part that the emphasis should lay on. Sure are FitE and D21 the once if you want to go for the complete East Front show, but Barbarossa isn't the schwerpunkt of these scenarios.

Hmm..and I was thinking D21. [:D]

Well, considering just Barbarossa I'd have to say DNO. Oldie but goodie.

[Zovs]

Oh, yeah forgot about DNO, I have a modified version I have been tweaking and fixing for TOAW IV.

[Lobster]

Nice. Are you going to post it on the new scenario area?

[BigDuke66]

I remember we had someone some years back "updating" all MB scenario. Updating in so far that they were loaded and saved so that they were playable right away in TOAWIV. At least I have now Version 4.0, while officially 3.7 was afaik the latest.

A tweaked & fixed version would indeed be interesting, but here we have the same problem as back then. Discussion started if it was allowed to modify the scenario without the designers permission. Not sure if the thread was removed, at least I can't find it anymore.

[Lobster]

Yes there is something like that. The back of all the printed manuals said the scenarios were the authors property and they had copyrights. Probably still holds true. Forgot about that. [:(]

I know the FitE2 guys don't want people messing with their stuff unless they changed their minds. Maybe if you tried to get in touch with the original author and if you can't then do your own thing with it. Then give the original author credit in the briefing.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Yes there is something like that. The back of all the printed manuals said the scenarios were the authors property and they had copyrights. Probably still holds true. Forgot about that. [:(]

As I recall the original line from the manuals was that any scenario produced using the scenario editor was property of TakeTwo Interactive- with permission given only for personal use.

McBride actually ran afoul of that when he wanted to start charging for his scenarios back in the day. I have a suspicion he'd be vaguely hostile to people modifying his scenarios and then sharing them. As I recall, he tried to stop anyone else hosting them and actually had them removed from Rugged Defense et al.

[Simon Edmonds]

Slightly off topic. Big Duke 66. So many of the scenarios have been updated to that they would work on Toaw III and IV. But not so many have been changed to take advantage of the new game features. Europe Aflame still has a map of 160 x 150 hexes. With all of the increases to events, units, formations and hexmaps imagine what that could be updated to.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Simon Edmonds

Europe Aflame still has a map of 160 x 150 hexes. With all of the increases to events, units, formations and hexmaps imagine what that could be updated to.

I'm sure it could be turned into an unplayable monster very easily...

The map limits were already 300x300 even in Volume I, but the designers of Europe Aflame chose to make the scenario at 33km/hex (if I recall correctly) and corps level. It's a lot more popular and well-known than a lot of scenarios which cover the European War with a bigger map and more units because it's very playable.

[Zovs]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Nice. Are you going to post it on the new scenario area?

Yes, in fact I have updated all those scenarios from that designer, including the word docs, and updated them to use new color schemes for the series.

[Lobster]

Volume 1 says all scenarios are property of Talonsoft. After Volume 1 that is removed. The below is removed in IV but if someone is really protective of their work and has the money I'm quite sure they could make a case of copyright infringement.

However, TOAWIII:
THE ENCLOSED SOFTWARE PROGRAM AND THIS MANUAL ARE COPYRIGHTED. ALL RIGHTS ARE RESERVED. THE ORIGINAL PURCHASER MAY PRINT OR HAVE A PRINT/COPY SHOP MAKE A PRINTOUT AND/OR COPY OF THE MANUAL. MATRIX PUBLISHING, LLC GRANTS THE ORIGINAL PURCHASER OF THIS SOFTWARE PACKAGE THE RIGHT TO USE ONE COPY OF THE SOFTWARE PROGRAM. YOU MAY NOT RENT OR LEASE IT, DISASSEMBLE, DECOMPILE, REVERSE ENGINEER, OR MODIFY THE SOFTWARE IN ANYWAY. ALL EDITORS MAY BE USED TO CREATE SCENARIOS THAT MAY BE FREELY DISTRIBUTED. ALL SCENARIO AUTHORS HOLD THE ULTIMATE RIGHTS TO THEIR DESIGNED SCENARIOS AND MATRIX PUBLISHING, LLC MAKES N OCLAIMS THEREOF. YOU MAY NOT COPY OR DISTRIBUTE COPIES IN ANY MEDIA FORM. ANY PERSONS DOING SO SHALL BE GUILTY OF COPYRIGHT VIOLATION AND SUBjECT TO THE APPROPRIATE CIVIL OR CRIMINAL ACTION AT THE DISCRETION OF THECOPYRIGHT HOLDER.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Nice. Are you going to post it on the new scenario area?

Yes, in fact I have updated all those scenarios from that designer, including the word docs, and updated them to use new color schemes for the series.

Going to have to take a look at it then. [:)]

[golden delicious]

..

[Lobster]

Has anyone tried playing Barbarossa Tactical? A Silvanski mod of a Piero Falotti scenario.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

I'm sure it could be turned into an unplayable monster very easily...

The map limits were already 300x300 even in Volume I, but the designers of Europe Aflame chose to make the scenario at 33km/hex (if I recall correctly) and corps level. It's a lot more popular and well-known than a lot of scenarios which cover the European War with a bigger map and more units because it's very playable.

All true of my Barbarossa scenario, too:

https://crossrl1.wixsite.com/my-toaw-si ... union-1941

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


All true of my Barbarossa scenario, too:

https://crossrl1.wixsite.com/my-toaw-si ... union-1941

It's a fun scenario. The thing about this one is that if you're in PBEM you could potentially run through several matches without necessarily getting sick of the thing. I imagine most matches of e.g. DNO end early because one player simply cannot face opening his turns any more.

From memory, vs. PO I find that (unsurprisingly) both sides are more or less a walkover for the human player. You'd want to look at some house rules for the human player to make it more of a challenge.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

From memory, vs. PO I find that (unsurprisingly) both sides are more or less a walkover for the human player. You'd want to look at some house rules for the human player to make it more of a challenge.

For the Soviet PO in particular - too many kluges in the design required for them. But don't overestimate the skill of raw beginners. They need some easy ones.