Has anyone created a Sep 39 mod?

[VonWulfen]

Hello all.
I am curious if anyone had ever created an Axis campaign that starts in Sep 1939 with the invasion of Poland, and the subsequent push to the french coast?
I don't think I have ever seen or played this period.

[RedLancer]

It's not possible in WitW due to hardcoded date limits.

[VonWulfen]

ORIGINAL: RedLancer

It's not possible in WitW due to hardcoded date limits.

Ah, I see.
Maybe it will be possible in WitW2

[Witold Janik]

I was thinking about creating "Fall Weiss" campaign scenario too - even using false date, like September 1941 or 1943. In WitW or in WitE2, whatever. Just 6 turns and German-Polish fighting for the beginning.

But the biggest problem is - I suppose - that there are 3 factions: Axis, West Allies and USSR. Making Red Army units as a sub-part of Wehrmacht would be pointless (for example: they should not support each other or occupy the same hexes). The only option for this would be excluding eastern part of Poland from the playable area - but I think it would be too limiting for meaningful gaming options (especially for Poles).


Another interesting conception - but for WitE2 game - would be creating alternative "Barbarossa" scenario, where Poland - after joining anti-comintern pact in early 1939 (according to Adolf Hitler's plan) - is participating in attack on USSR. Having about 30 additional Polish divisions more and starting few hundreds kilometres far to the east, Axis could have defeat Stalin's empire.
If anyone would be interested in helping to create such scenario - feel free to contact me

[rmeckman]

The thread at

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4132150&mpage=1&key=poland%2Cnorway&#4132150

also provides some background on why the early WW2 campaigns are challenging to simulate in the WitW/WitE framework, especially considering weekly turns.

[cfulbright]

I once asked Joel Billings about this, and he said that either Poland 1939 or France 1940 would be very short and boring games.

Then again, if you look at some of the scenarios in WitW and Torch, or even Destruction of Army Group Center in WitE, the same could be said about them!

Cary

[Witold Janik]

ORIGINAL: rmeckman
The thread at
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4132150&mpage=1&key=poland%2Cnorway�
also provides some background on why the early WW2 campaigns are challenging to simulate in the WitW/WitE framework, especially considering weekly turns.

Oh, thank you! I missed that thread.

ORIGINAL: cfulbright
I once asked Joel Billings about this, and he said that either Poland 1939 or France 1940 would be very short and boring games.

Then again, if you look at some of the scenarios in WitW and Torch, or even Destruction of Army Group Center in WitE, the same could be said about them!

Thank you cfulbright for your answer.

1. Clearly, that looks like the answer of a person who is not interested in the theme.
First of all - giving to allied commander an option to re-arrange Polish troops before 1st September would increase campaign length. And this could be the first challenge to players - would your plan of defense of Poland be better than was in reality? Could you hold your ground long enough to see the start of allied offensive in the West?
In fact whole Polish campaign has been already lost in the moment of choosing deploying troops due to political aims (protection of most populated and developed regions) and not military (shortened defense line, backed up on line of main rivers).

2. Of course, you are right! It is called 'inconsistency'...

=====
Ok. After reading the thread mentioned above and your comments I see some point of making 'what if' scenario, assuming no Ribbentropp-Molotov agreement (that will make it possible to pass by whole Red Army problem) with false date (like 1941 or 1943).
It would need to create additional tables for units, TOEs etc. And no production for the sake of simplicity.
Any other ideas or hints for that option?

Cheers!

[cfulbright]

1. Clearly, that looks like the answer of a person who is not interested in the theme.

Joel Billings has been making and publishing computer wargames for over 30 years, so I wouldn't say he's "a person who is not interested in the theme." But I would say that as a game publisher he's interested in making a living off of the time and money he invests in creating games, and if he thinks there wouldn't be enough interest in such a game or scenarios, I defer to his superior judgment and experience.

Cary

[xComagent1995]

I am still a bit confused about this [&:].
The editor manual states that the starting date for scenarios can only be a date between June 1943 and December 1945. Then again there is a scenario (from the Torch addon) which starts in 1942.

Did the creators of this scenario find a workaround or was the time limit changed for that addon or is there a way to edit the .scn-files with a different software alltogether thus avoiding the limitations of the build-in editor?

[IslandInland]

A September 1939 mod is possible but the date in game just would have to be changed to September 1943.

Someone would also have to create the entire Polish OOB and TOE and probably create new equipment for the Poles. I seem to recall there are some Polish aircraft already in the editor.

It would not be easy but it is doable with the caveat being the game date would be 1943.

[Witold Janik]

ORIGINAL: IslandInland

A September 1939 mod is possible but the date in game just would have to be changed to September 1943.

Someone would also have to create the entire Polish OOB and TOE and probably create new equipment for the Poles. I seem to recall there are some Polish aircraft already in the editor.

It would not be easy but it is doable with the caveat being the game date would be 1943.

Yup. As I wrote above.
OOB and TOE wouldn't be a big problem
Many of equipment used by Poles in '39 (or very similar) is already in data base. Most of Polish aircraft designs were used by Hungarians, Greeks or Bulgarians. Polish armed forces used popular foreign constructions as Bofors AA and AT guns or B.A.R. (used in US Army) or Browning HMG as well. Most common bolt-action rifle was Polish adaptation of Mauser k98. The best Polish tank 7TP was a creative development of British Vickers E. tank armed with fine 37mm Bofors AT gun (and was much superior to German PzKpf I or II and a little worse than German PzKpf III). Etc., etc. etc.

I can provide all historical information, consultations etc., but at this moment not much more.

[antwniago]

If anyone wants it I have some of the work done from an attempt at making a Fall Weiss last year on WITW, I was learning how to edit the game and before finishing WITE2 was out and I have switched to that and learnt a lot more about the game and been crating a Bulgarian army.

Points already raised that I also found:

Date has to be set to Sept 1943 but if it can be done in WITE2 then Sept 1941
No production
German and soviet forces have to be on the same side against Poland.

I have devices, aircraft, ground elms, TOE, Leaders, locations, airgroups and units for the Poles that although undoubtedly not perfect have the bulk of the work in WITW CSV's. Eventually I hope to get around to migrating it into WITE2 and seeing if I can finish it off.

Currently looks like the below with half the German army to still deploy to correct positions.

[Witold Janik]

ORIGINAL: antwniago

If anyone wants it I have some of the work done from an attempt at making a Fall Weiss last year on WITW, I was learning how to edit the game and before finishing WITE2 was out and I have switched to that and learnt a lot more about the game and been crating a Bulgarian army.

Points already raised that I also found:

Date has to be set to Sept 1943 but if it can be done in WITE2 then Sept 1941
No production
German and soviet forces have to be on the same side against Poland.

I have devices, aircraft, ground elms, TOE, Leaders, locations, airgroups and units for the Poles that although undoubtedly not perfect have the bulk of the work in WITW CSV's. Eventually I hope to get around to migrating it into WITE2 and seeing if I can finish it off.

Currently looks like the below with half the German army to still deploy to correct positions.

@antwniago - that's looks wonderful! Although there are some clearly missing or displaced parts, you have done outstanding job already! I'm so grateful that someone thought about it

Would you be keen to share your work to aim to evaluate it, or possibly improve it, to make it "more ready"?

Regards,
W.

[antwniago]

No problem sharing as if it helps anyone then all to the good, as I said it is only a start and I am sure there are plenty of amendments to be made, especially the Polish terminology which was done on a UK keyboard so only approximate spelling as we see it.

Attached are:

The scenario
The scenario CSVs - Units, Air Groups and Locations
The generic CSVs - Devices, Aircraft, Ground Elms, TOE, and Leaders

I do have some photos done somewhere for the ground a/c and leaders which I shall try to find but they are only partially done.

In all the files your can find the relevant data by searching "Poland" as it is a header above their segment.

I would way if you aren't working just from the CSV's to definitely put it into a separate copy of WITW as the generic data has a lot more than just the Polish extra info and it could well mess your game up. Also the US forces were mostly disabled/removed to do some testing with other nations using their entry.

Hopefully you can access the zipped files from below link in dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k5pcr3xlmqslj ... s.zip?dl=0

[IslandInland]

ORIGINAL: antwniago

If anyone wants it I have some of the work done from an attempt at making a Fall Weiss last year on WITW, I was learning how to edit the game and before finishing WITE2 was out and I have switched to that and learnt a lot more about the game and been crating a Bulgarian army.

Points already raised that I also found:

Date has to be set to Sept 1943 but if it can be done in WITE2 then Sept 1941
No production
German and soviet forces have to be on the same side against Poland.

I have devices, aircraft, ground elms, TOE, Leaders, locations, airgroups and units for the Poles that although undoubtedly not perfect have the bulk of the work in WITW CSV's. Eventually I hope to get around to migrating it into WITE2 and seeing if I can finish it off.

Currently looks like the below with half the German army to still deploy to correct positions.

This looks great. Good work.

[sfbaytf]

WitE2 is the new kid on the block but WitW could use some TLC. Add the North African Campaign from 41 would really add alot to this game. 1939 would be even better.

[jedwardpita]

Good stuff. I could imagine a multi-player WITE2/WITW2 combo game with Poland as an ally of Russia or Germany. A 1939 two front war would be interesting! Italy could enter as an ally or enemy of Germany. In WWI Italy was initially closer to the central powers, but switched for a sweeter deal.