Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A))

[Encircled]

"Hirohito's War" is scathing about Stillwell and very favourable to the Nationalist Chinese

I did wonder how the Chinese managed to fight Japan for so long if they were as incompetent and as corrupt as claimed

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock



Given the corruption in Chiang Kai-shek's China, I guess that's actually realistic!

Listed to a roundtable discussion of historians about Stilwell. It seems much of the hype about corruption and incompetence in Chiang's areas was propaganda from Stilwell, and later from the communists. Regarding Stilwell's own performance, he was known within the US Army as the 'the highest ranking company commander in the army'.

Have your read Barbara Tuchman's book on Stillwell?

No. If you have, your thoughts about it? I've got quite a long pending list, is it worth adding?

[JohnDillworth]

I have, Stilwell and the American Experience in China: 1911-1945 is an outstanding book and we are blessed that is was written by an author of Barbara Tuchmans caliber. Hard to digest a complex station and a complex man but the corruption was real. It was ingrained, it was cultural and it was universal. Long negotiaions and complex deals had to be made before the Chinese would fight. They often fought well, sometimes they packed up and left, but they certainly were not following Stilwells orders. Anything he accomplished he accomplished thought deep cultural understanding and negotiation. It was complex situation to say the least and like evey other theater in the war nobody thought they were getting the supplies or attention they should.

On a related note and this is certainly not covered in the book. Flash forward to 1944. When Japan launched is largest offensive of the war, Operation Ichi-Go, the communists sat on the sidelines while the Nationalist Army bore the full brunt of stopping the offensive. This weakened the Nationalist Army to the point that the communists won the civil war. Had the Japanese not launched that offensive, or if the communists fully participated in the defense, the world might look different today. A fabulous "what if" , I'll admit, but fascinating to contemplate.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: witpqs


No. If you have, your thoughts about it? I've got quite a long pending list, is it worth adding?

Yes, it is definitely worth adding.

Stillwell was in an impossible situation with culture, factions (so many of them), and logistics all against him. To say he did poorly is I think to not understand the theatre.

I think the posting only had degrees of failure possible.

[JohnDillworth]

What we would call corruption might be what other cultures would call "business norms". As you say, so many factions with so many different loyalties. It's hard enough today setting aside our Judeo-Christian/democratic/western values to consider the way things are done in foreign cultures. It must have been almost impossible in the 1940's. In this respect Stilwell better suited to the job than almost anyone else. He understood the culture and tried, sometimes successfully, to work within it.

[Lowpe]

June 13, 1942

Japan shock attacks and sends our forces back to Ankang...normal action....the usual IJ bombing of Clark, Singers, Chinese.

Ground combat at 82,43 (near Ankang)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 32322 troops, 215 guns, 421 vehicles, Assault Value = 916

Defending force 22788 troops, 49 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 369

Japanese adjusted assault: 1178

Allied adjusted defense: 310

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
1403 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 135 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 18 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Vehicles lost 39 (1 destroyed, 38 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
8752 casualties reported
Squads: 274 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 240 destroyed, 38 disabled
Engineers: 13 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 6 (6 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 4

[Lowpe]

Convoy spotted east of Tarawa...Tsuta is a really weak IJN destroyer I believe. Destroying her is a priority of course, as nothing destroys the IJN more than loss of destroyers thru to mid 44.

Of course one lone destroyer doesn't carry nearly enough ASW ammunition to make a delivery to Baker Island.[;)]

Sub attack near Tarawa at 137,128

Japanese Ships
DD Tsuta
xAK Azuchisan Maru
xAK Ohio Maru
xAK Marei Maru
xAK Akiura Maru

Allied Ships
SS Halibut

SS Halibut launches 2 torpedoes at DD Tsuta
Halibut diving deep ....
DD Tsuta attacking submerged sub ....
DD Tsuta fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Tsuta fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Tsuta fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Tsuta fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

[Lowpe]

Low night time experience is the only thing holding me back from using my squadron of Atlantas' as a raiding force, but the appearance of a merchant convoy...headed to Baker or Canton might cause me to test my hypothesis.

[Lowpe]

Search arcs are always something of a mystery to me. I seem to always have better success with no arcs...but they do work past four hexes.

I have had great success in turning off all search except for very tight arcs and coordinating long range air strikes as Japan for example.

However, how they work in the 4 hex and less area is unknown to me. Sure, you get some coverage automatically, but is it enhanced search over the arc? Or is it the same chance for all four hexes 360 degrees? Don't know. Plus a plane has a chance of stopping their search when they encounter the enemy...so multiple search is always good. When in doubt I always assume the game follows some common sense or real world path....so:

Here I have setup an easy search pattern with a perm restricted squadron and a small ASW task force. I plan on looking in on them once in a blue moon or less...mostly for operating damage to the ships.

YP ships work very well for this, and a couple of months ago I detailed some coverage of them along the West Coast.



As Japan, I would either park an Iboat in the target hex, or if motivated set up a patrol with two points about 2-4 hexes apart depending upon DL. Or use them for other jobs...

[Lowpe]

No time to spare on getting this ship withdrawn. [;)] I really like using Mombasa, and this is simply another reason why.

[Lowpe]

China supply...

The skytrain squadrons aren't full strength yet, and we get about 1 a day in the pools...plus every now and then we can allocate another bomber squadron to providing supply.

Plus we are still using some transports to fly troops hither and thither.

[JohnDillworth]

Once your torpedoes work a bit better and once the facet of Fletcher's opens up a bit you might want to try some 2xDD TF's as raiders. They are fast, hard to detect, have good range, are hard to hit and they actually pack a bit of a punch. Right now anything with decent AAA value should be protecting carriers

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Right now anything with decent AAA value should be protecting carriers

I think I will disagree with that as a blanket statement.

First and foremost, day in and day out, Iboats present the greatest danger, unless you are looking to provoke a CV clash. Therefore maximizing your ASW platforms & protection should be more important than providing AA.

Secondly, this early in the game, the Allies can't be using their CVs too much as the plane pools, pilot training, crew experience, and even the moon phase won't allow it. So why idle potentially good ships?

Third, the Allies have lots of choices for AA coverage of the CVs especially as the game wears on, but a more limited choice on potential raiders.

I do plan on using Fletchers that way, but more likely in groups of 3 or more. Right now there is a Desron of 3 Porters hunting around, but they have failed to catch anything yet. My medium term goal is to get raiders setup all along Japan's perimeter and constantly probe it, sometimes shallowly, and sometimes deeply. But that takes a backseat to radar upgrades and night training.

[witpqs]

I agree, at this stage ASW is paramount for the carriers. Always important, but late game the IJN subs are typically already knocked out of the action.

[Capt. Harlock]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

What we would call corruption might be what other cultures would call "business norms". As you say, so many factions with so many different loyalties. It's hard enough today setting aside our Judeo-Christian/democratic/western values to consider the way things are done in foreign cultures. It must have been almost impossible in the 1940's. In this respect Stilwell better suited to the job than almost anyone else. He understood the culture and tried, sometimes successfully, to work within it.

The Governor of She said to Confucius, 'In our village we have an example of a straight person. When the father stole a sheep, the son gave evidence against him.' Confucius answered, 'In our village those who are straight are quite different. Fathers cover up for their sons, and sons cover up for their fathers. In such behaviour is straightness to be found as a matter of course.'
-- Confucius, The Analects

[Lowpe]

Very nice, Captain![:)]

Game news:

I am retreating with the best troops out of Clark in an attempt to avoid severe losses due to a forced retreat, and hopefully we will be able to survive longer at Bataan.

Retreating out of Ankang, but the Japanese armor will make it long before we get out...the next two hexes have dug in troops and artillery but supply is iffy and we will be overstacked....but the hex tot he west is a river crossing.

Liberty ships are leaving daily from Balboa to Rappa unescorted. From Rappa to New Zealand supplies will be lightly escorted in another task force with smaller merchant ships, and then the same for the run to Australia although currently Australia gets 90%+ of their supplies from Cape Town.

Two Marine Regiments are loading up at Bombay for Mombasa, thence to Cape Town and then Balboa and then Pearl Harbor. They are prepping for the the Jimas although they can't build prep on ships.

Large concentration of British troops at Comilla and Dacca...will move on Chittagong as soon as they form up. Timed to match the incursion of a large Chinese Corp and British Division into northern Burma on the near Imphal...Hoping these guys steal a march on the Japanese.

[JohnDillworth]

"The Governor of She said to Confucius, 'In our village we have an example of a straight person. When the father stole a sheep, the son gave evidence against him.' Confucius answered, 'In our village those who are straight are quite different. Fathers cover up for their sons, and sons cover up for their fathers. In such behaviour is straightness to be found as a matter of course.'
-- Confucius, The Analects

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo
"

[&o]

[Lowpe]

Jan 14, 1942

Japan has 30+ units moving up the Angkang road...600+ tanks.

Three full IJA division off road west of Ankang, two pictured and one just to the west.

[ITAKLinus]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I do plan on using Fletchers that way, but more likely in groups of 3 or more. Right now there is a Desron of 3 Porters hunting around, but they have failed to catch anything yet. My medium term goal is to get raiders setup all along Japan's perimeter and constantly probe it, sometimes shallowly, and sometimes deeply. But that takes a backseat to radar upgrades and night training.

In the past I've successfully used old CLs from PH. Great range and they can pass quite easily into Philippines Sea.


Had huge success in mid- and late-war with 3xFletchers as you mention. I agree on the part regarding AA vs ASW. ASW is the main thing to be looked at.

Generally, I think maximizing AA is something more for the mid and late war: if the Japanese catches you with your pants down, AA won't help much anyway at this stage.

Interestingly, I'm always short of DDs as the allied player, so it might be that I'm too liberal in their use (and loss).

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Japan has 30+ units moving up the Angkang road...600+ tanks.

Good-good, let him burn lots of supply on those long dirt roads!