Confusion over AF Overstacking Turn 1 (Takao)

[BBfanboy]

My understanding is that the overstacking issue affects both coordination (being able to launch all the aircraft in one strike) and repairs. Counting the Air Support against the number of aircraft is the first test (and a level 8 AF doubles the raw Air Support), but there is another test against the number of engines that have to be repaired/maintained. Perhaps the overstack messages refer to that? Each level of AF is supposed to cover 50 engines IIRC, meaning 400 engines for the level 8 AF.

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

My understanding is that the overstacking issue affects both coordination (being able to launch all the aircraft in one strike) and repairs. Counting the Air Support against the number of aircraft is the first test (and a level 8 AF doubles the raw Air Support), but there is another test against the number of engines that have to be repaired/maintained. Perhaps the overstack messages refer to that? Each level of AF is supposed to cover 50 engines IIRC, meaning 400 engines for the level 8 AF.

You and I have discussed this before.[;)] I think you pointed out that co-ordination is not affected by base command affiliation.

The command chain to which air groups belong, and HQs of that command chain being in range of the bases from which strikes fly, is something Alfred has confirmed the algorithms look at when determining strike coordination effectiveness.

The efficient operation of bases in terms of air group stacking looks at what command chain the base is in, and what command chain the HQ that is giving a base admin bonuses is in. For full effect you need a same command chain HQ.... but... a 9 rated command HQ will give at least half it's rating (i.e. 4) to any base within 18 hexes even if it is owned by a different command HQ. So every 5 becomes a 9 for stacking purposes within that radius. It could get a better admin bump from an HQ in it's own command chain with a rating of 5 or more, but it will at least get that +4.

What that means is what the Elf said:

A 9+ airfield does not suffer from overstacking.
Here is your out. If you can achieve this through any combination of AF building, and HQ manipulation you can be free of the overstacking rule and have a most efficient AF.

He doesn't mention strike co-ordination; reading his comments together with Alfred's tells me that all in all, you are going to get more aircraft in your strikes if you have not-overstacked airbases, and you are going to get better co-ordinated strikes if you maintain some sort of Air HQ - air unit command chain which gets the orchestra playing better together.


So, for maximum combat effectiveness - pay attention to both things.

Edit - having enough AV on base to service the aircraft is a separate issue, but if you have insufficient AV you have slower repairs/maintenance, and with severe AV shortage, aircraft being pushed into reserve. So that is something else to pay attention to.

[BBfanboy]

I was just trying to suggest a possible reason for the overstacked message he was getting. He seems to have all the other things covered but had not discussed the engine limit. If it is not affecting his strikes, all is well. Over and out.

[Ian R]

He's getting an overstacked message because it is still the case that it is overstacked.

He is not however suffering the overstacking penalties, because the admin bump for HQ is negating it.

It seems the code at the relevant time in the daily sequence (maybe) -

- detects the overstacking
- checks if you have any HQ 'support' to negate the usual penalties that provokes
- if not it applies overstacking penalties WRT that base and the operational efficiency of groups on it.

I have no idea what the code does, but that is the outcome in substance, and is consistent with the Elf's description of the benefit.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

My understanding is that the overstacking issue affects both coordination (being able to launch all the aircraft in one strike) and repairs. Counting the Air Support against the number of aircraft is the first test (and a level 8 AF doubles the raw Air Support), but there is another test against the number of engines that have to be repaired/maintained. Perhaps the overstack messages refer to that? Each level of AF is supposed to cover 50 engines IIRC, meaning 400 engines for the level 8 AF.

Thanks yeah repairs are not an issue...

[JorMallester]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Yaab,

You don't have to do that - it's a level 8 airfield which is getting a 4 level HQ bonus on turn 1. Note it says Base Administration 13 of 12 groups in red on the air unit screen. It also has more than enough AV support.

As a result, it is nominally a level 9 and ignores the overstack effects - per the Elf in the post I linked above.

Incidentally, Takao is a based 'owned' by General Defence [R], and the HQs on base are all Southern Army (some via 11th Airfleet). While they are helping with AV support and strike coordination for groups in their command chain, the base is getting the admin bump from elsewhere. Chinese Expeditionary Army in Nanking - a command HQ with 9 rating, and less than 9x2 away is extending half its command rating to Takao, although it is not in its command chain, looks to be where it is coming from.

In order to test that, I did a quick edit of scenario 1, and moved Chinese Expeditionary Army to Moho on the Amur River/Siberian border. As expected, Takao base admin now shows 13 of 10 groups. It is now getting half the rating of the next best command or air HQ in range - in this case, that is 11th Air Fleet - rating 5 halved and round down =2. It is still 9+ though, which is all you need.

Sorry to butt in! Slowly but surely learning this game!

I understand just about everything that has been talked about in this thread except for just one little bit.

''a command HQ with 9 rating, and less than 9x2 away is extending half its command rating to Takao''

Why is the required distance less than 9x2 (18)? I checked in game and Nanking is 13 hexes away. Isn't the command radius of the Nanking HQ 9? So where does the multiplier of 2 come from? I may be having a huge brain fart here, so I do apologize in advance.

Help would be appreciated for this big noob.

Thank you for your time!

[RangerJoe]

The command range is doubled for assisting other lower level HQs.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: JorMallester


Sorry to butt in! Slowly but surely learning this game!

I understand just about everything that has been talked about in this thread except for just one little bit.

''a command HQ with 9 rating, and less than 9x2 away is extending half its command rating to Takao''

Why is the required distance less than 9x2 (18)? I checked in game and Nanking is 13 hexes away. Isn't the command radius of the Nanking HQ 9? So where does the multiplier of 2 come from? I may be having a huge brain fart here, so I do apologize in advance.

Help would be appreciated for this big noob.

Thank you for your time!

Patch #1, Code Change #72 altered the airfield stacking rules regarding HQs

A Command HQ influences the stacking limits at airfields up to 2x the range of the HQ. However the full benefit is only applied to airfields which are no further away than 1x the Command HQ's range. If the airfield is further away than 1x (up to a maximum of 2x), the HQ benefit is halved.

Alfred

[JorMallester]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: JorMallester


Sorry to butt in! Slowly but surely learning this game!

I understand just about everything that has been talked about in this thread except for just one little bit.

''a command HQ with 9 rating, and less than 9x2 away is extending half its command rating to Takao''

Why is the required distance less than 9x2 (18)? I checked in game and Nanking is 13 hexes away. Isn't the command radius of the Nanking HQ 9? So where does the multiplier of 2 come from? I may be having a huge brain fart here, so I do apologize in advance.

Help would be appreciated for this big noob.

Thank you for your time!

Patch #1, Code Change #72 altered the airfield stacking rules regarding HQs

A Command HQ influences the stacking limits at airfields up to 2x the range of the HQ. However the full benefit is only applied to airfields which are no further away than 1x the Command HQ's range. If the airfield is further away than 1x (up to a maximum of 2x), the HQ benefit is halved.

Alfred

Ah okay I get it now! Thanks so much for clearing that up for me guys.