Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Can see that jubjub has picked up on the tactic of doing GA against Axis units. There is no need for a fighter escort for these attacks as they are not going to be intercepted. If the fighters are FB-B then by all means use them as extra bombers. To make best use of GA the Soviets should convert all their fighters to FB-B on T1 as there is almost no value to using fighters during '41.

What I don't see is the follow up attack. Yes, you can do some attrition this way but the main value in battering an Axis unit is that you can follow up with a ground attack when it has been weakened.

I am sorry since this ended up being confusing since I posted the Ground attack later in the AAR in reference to another post in another AAR. The ground attack after the Ground bombing was in post #476 earlier in this AAR. I just didn't show the ground bombing. So I got Ground Attacked bomb'd 3 times and then pretty well man handled during the Soviet turn after the bombing during the ground phase. I will post the snapshot from post #476 below for quicker reference.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Can see that jubjub has picked up on the tactic of doing GA against Axis units. There is no need for a fighter escort for these attacks as they are not going to be intercepted. If the fighters are FB-B then by all means use them as extra bombers. To make best use of GA the Soviets should convert all their fighters to FB-B on T1 as there is almost no value to using fighters during '41.

I had an auto interception this turn of a Ground Attack being intercepted in post #484 earlier in this AAR (shown below for quick reference. It has been rare and tied to my supply & quick entry into my territory it seems. But out of 6 bombing raids in this area I was able to intercept 1 raid. Granted my settings have a bit to do with interception but I have them set to where I won't lose as many 109's if I do intercept. If I set lower less planes will likely take off to intercept thus defeating my purpose of preserving the Fighter arm as long as possible. But at the moment I will let the Ground Attack to continue to bomb and eventually I will put an end to it when my supply is adequate.

If the Soviets do convert all their fighters to bombers just remember the delay of converting them back if you need them in a hurry. Plus someone that is better at supply than me could put a damper on Ground Attack pretty quick with adequate supply.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Yes, I have done this and used it up north in the dense forest. This is pretty much the same thing I showed in my AAR in WITE1 a few years back which translate very well here in WITE2. I will actually use 5 Med/heavy AA in a HQ spaced every so many hexes for good effect. I can show you what I do if you like or you can find my old post from WITE1 AAR which may be a bit hard. Guess I will post when I get the turn back

I don't see much value in this for WITE2. SUs are not distributed against air attacks, so if a unit is bombed and it's HQ has an AA SU then unless it is in the same hex the AA SU will not be used. You can assign AA SUs to HQs and use them to protect specific hexes or fly over paths but the Soviets can check the AA intensity before they set up their GA attacks and play to avoid them.
Yes, occasionally there is a critical hex, say defending a pocket, where it is worthwhile using an HQ to build up the the AA defense.

AA has a zone of reaction(A ZOC for firing that is all around the unit housing that AA). I found the rule in the manual but am not going to go look it up again at the moment. This is the same reaction zone that was in WITE but redefined. Thus, if you set up your AA up properly and aircraft doing bombing runs over or near that zone the AA will fire. The opposite side "cannot" see your anti-aircraft guns until they have been recon'd in some form or another. So yes after they have been recon'd in some form or another they will be seen but until that time no they cannot be seen. Plus if you set up interlocking ZOC of the AA then the opposing aircraft will still have to run the gauntlet. That is why starting in post #194 of this AAR you see large amounts of my AA guns firing on Soviet bombers coming in for attack(posted that picture here for reference) Thus distributing your AA guns appropriately you can get some crazy flak on marauding Soviet bombers. But that is me and my mindset but I will let my results speak for themself.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Here are some of the Manual rules for flak and range.

So flying below 10,000 you can cut the range firing out. Thus, you can still set up an AA defense to funnel air attacks if you put your head to it in my opinion.

I have been testing first turn bombing for the Germans based on the last paragraph in 19.3.2 along with another twist. I will show this in my new AAR "Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow" here shortly https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5076862

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Here is the Manual rule on detection of flak

key on the last sentence

[tyronec]

Here is the section on adjacent AA. In my game as Axis I was not getting adjacent AA firing so am guessing he was flying at below 10k. Too late to check now.
The second pic is the AA screen BEFORE recon. I don't know how accurate it is and if it always picks up AA SUs, but it shows a lot of information.

Granted my settings have a bit to do with interception but I have them set to where I won't lose as many 109's if I do intercept. If I set lower less planes will likely take off to intercept. But at the moment I will let the Ground Attack to continue to bomb and eventually I will put an end to it when my supply is adequate.

What settings are you referring to that effect interception ?

I hope you are correct that interception will improve when supplies are 'adequate', it would be good to know what the criteria for interception are. I do think that supplies have something to do with it but in what way is a mystery.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Here is the section on adjacent AA. In my game as Axis I was not getting adjacent AA firing so am guessing he was flying at below 10k. Too late to check now.
The second pic is the AA screen BEFORE recon. I don't know how accurate it is and if it always picks up AA SUs, but it shows a lot of information.

Granted my settings have a bit to do with interception but I have them set to where I won't lose as many 109's if I do intercept. If I set lower less planes will likely take off to intercept. But at the moment I will let the Ground Attack to continue to bomb and eventually I will put an end to it when my supply is adequate.

What settings are you referring to that effect interception ?

I hope you are correct that interception will improve when supplies are 'adequate', it would be good to know what the criteria for interception are. I do think that supplies have something to do with it but in what way is a mystery.

Yes, 1st turn AA is a given. It is later turns when Soviets have retreated will the AA not show up. You will see it in cities and permanent emplacements but Soviet unit AA will not shown up until recon'd in some form. This is the big gotcha for seeing the values showing up. Turn AA on during your next ground phase and you will see the values change with your movement next to Soviet units.

If you set your % of aircraft for a mission lower your fuel requirement will be lower for less Aircraft. I have mine set a bit higher thus more aircraft require more fuel. At least that is how I am interpreting the auto interception but someone smarter than me can tell me for sure. Thus why I say "settings have an effect" on interception.

Yes, correct on 19.3.1 and ceiling heights and AA. I just posted the same in a previous post. I have found that 7,000 ft has been a sweet spot for bombing effect but will also take more AA damage though from in hex AA.

[tyronec]

If you set your % of aircraft for a mission lower your fuel requirement will be lower for less Aircraft. I have mine set a bit higher thus more aircraft require more fuel. At least that is how I am interpreting the auto interception but someone smarter than me can tell me for sure. Thus why I say "settings have an effect" on interception.

There is no mission % for auto-intercept. There is an AD setting for Superiority. Maybe that one also applies to auto-intercept, is that the one you mean ?
Or is there something I am missing, I didn't think there were any air settings apart from the AD ones ?

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

If you set your % of aircraft for a mission lower your fuel requirement will be lower for less Aircraft. I have mine set a bit higher thus more aircraft require more fuel. At least that is how I am interpreting the auto interception but someone smarter than me can tell me for sure. Thus why I say "settings have an effect" on interception.

There is no mission % for auto-intercept. There is an AD setting for Superiority. Maybe that one also applies to auto-intercept, is that the one you mean ?
Or is there something I am missing, I didn't think there were any air settings apart from the AD ones ?

I concur there is no mission setting for auto-intercept. Yes, I believe the AD applies to auto-intercept but not 100% sure. But my last interception I did of the interception of Ground Attack bombing indicates to me it is following one of the Air Directives because of the amount of planes that intercepted. Earlier in this game my settings were lower and less planes were auto intercepting interdictions & I did not like it because I was getting eaten alive by a swarm of Soviet fighters. So across the board on Air Directives I changed my settings to be the same. Thus more planes auto intercepted the interdiction bombing and I was like, "hmmmm, seems to be better after changing". I will try and look for this in the manual on Auto intercept or if Loki or someone else with this knowledge can chime in that would be great

This is all speculation on my part but does seem to be tied together.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: tyronec

If you set your % of aircraft for a mission lower your fuel requirement will be lower for less Aircraft. I have mine set a bit higher thus more aircraft require more fuel. At least that is how I am interpreting the auto interception but someone smarter than me can tell me for sure. Thus why I say "settings have an effect" on interception.

There is no mission % for auto-intercept. There is an AD setting for Superiority. Maybe that one also applies to auto-intercept, is that the one you mean ?
Or is there something I am missing, I didn't think there were any air settings apart from the AD ones ?

I concur there is no mission setting for auto-intercept. Yes, I believe the AD applies to auto-intercept but not 100% sure. But my last interception I did of the interception of Ground Attack bombing indicates to me it is following one of the Air Directives because of the amount of planes that intercepted. Earlier in this game my settings were lower and less planes were auto intercepting interdictions & I did not like it because I was getting eaten alive by a swarm of Soviet fighters. So across the board on Air Directives I changed my settings to be the same. Thus more planes auto intercepted the interdiction bombing and I was like, "hmmmm, seems to be better after changing". I will try and look for this in the manual on Auto intercept or if Loki or someone else with this knowledge can chime in that would be great

This is all speculation on my part but does seem to be tied together.

Found it!!!!! It checks the AS!

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: tyronec


There is no mission % for auto-intercept. There is an AD setting for Superiority. Maybe that one also applies to auto-intercept, is that the one you mean ?
Or is there something I am missing, I didn't think there were any air settings apart from the AD ones ?

I concur there is no mission setting for auto-intercept. Yes, I believe the AD applies to auto-intercept but not 100% sure. But my last interception I did of the interception of Ground Attack bombing indicates to me it is following one of the Air Directives because of the amount of planes that intercepted. Earlier in this game my settings were lower and less planes were auto intercepting interdictions & I did not like it because I was getting eaten alive by a swarm of Soviet fighters. So across the board on Air Directives I changed my settings to be the same. Thus more planes auto intercepted the interdiction bombing and I was like, "hmmmm, seems to be better after changing". I will try and look for this in the manual on Auto intercept or if Loki or someone else with this knowledge can chime in that would be great

This is all speculation on my part but does seem to be tied together.

Found it!!!!! It checks the AS!

Remember, I am the player that plays the game and reads the rules later if needed I have always done this in every game I play. lol

I think if I every sat down and read the whole manual it would probably make me a much much much better player. I just like trying the cause and effect routine. LOL

[DeletedUser1769703214]

This cost has made me cry in the game already I built a fort by mistake and will cost me yet another 1 AP to get rid of it

Learn from my mistake and make sure as Germany. Not only are you going to pay for the cost of the fort, you are going to pay to get rid of the fort. I heard baby Jesus cry on this one too.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Just Received turn 10. So I have to say "sorry Folks" but the offense is effectively over for me as the Germans.

* Supply is horrid to front line units. Even with a redundant supply network. My "muse" on redundancy didn't pay off Should have just did the single dual track line and been done with it.
* Soviet units are full CCP, dug in, and a bazillion units in reserve in front of Moscow. So not going to chance attacking.
* Soviets already multi layer deep in front of Moscow in WW1 style trenches.
* Soviet retreated again 4-5 hexes other parts of the map which would put me even further out of Supply if I follow
* At this point there is no reason to follow since I would just lose more men to supply. Better to just sit and wait. Plus once I catch up the Soviets just retreat again. Yes, I could use the airforce to slow them down but that takes supply. Supply is in short supply.
* Soviet GA bombing is relentless which then slows down my units even further(What the Germans should be doing but can't) Can't intercept them very often(seems to be a bug). When I do intercept I lose almost half of my fighters. Best to just let them bomb and take the 2 - 3 Thousand in bombing losses a turn.
* Soviets lose 100's of planes but no VP lose for mass loss of planes Oh well, I will just have to wait until I have supply. But boy it feels like I am playing the Soviets in 41 as Germans.
* Will just have to consolidate what I have and let supply catch up. To me the Axis are short 1 FBD to make things work, but no biggie

So there wont' be any post until I have the supply to do something which I then will catch up to the turns again. By then the Soviet will be at 4 to 4.5 million men if not more & way over that once the Nov 500,000 men hit. So I estimate 5.5 to 6 million men by Dec offensive.

I had to work my ass off for 2,000,000 casualties by turn 10 and won't even make a dent in what is needed. Anyway, sorry for the wait but it is going to be awhile before I am able to do anything to post something interesting.

Thanks for looking.

[Stephan61]

I think you articulated the frustration of playing Axis in H2H against a competent Russian Player very well.

Likewise I am pretty sure the Air War is broken and the Luftwaffe, bar turn 1, is a waste of energy/supply.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Stephan61

I think you articulated the frustration of playing Axis in H2H against a competent Russian Player very well.

Likewise I am pretty sure the Air War is broken and the Luftwaffe, bar turn 1, is a waste of energy/supply.

The frustration is real and there are things in the works to hopefully help in the future. But some of us have to bear the burden of proof in H2H games. By all means my offense isn't over and the Soviets are defending tooth and nail Moscow. But I wont be getting any more POW's for a few turns and that will let the Soviets grow along with the reinforcements. If I had just done straight up dual track lines instead of a bunch of redundancy the Soviets would be in a great deal of trouble right now. Along with using my PZ's differently. So, like I said at the beginning I had a lot of "Ad Hoc Musings" to try and try I did. At the moment those musings aren't playing out exactly as I envisioned but still hold promise.


Yes, the Lufwaffe is a mess. The German Airbases are acquiring Soviet stats per these two post I did with Joel Billings just now saying he sees the problem in the first post on what I posted Hopefully that will get fixed pretty quick.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... =&#5078431
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5075705

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 10 Beginning of Turn

Weather!!!

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 10 Beginning of Turn

Events

Partisans again

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 10 Beginning of Turn

I have partisans on top of partisans on top of partisans. I hate to see the later years when there are even more partisans

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 10 Beginning of Turn

Soviet Garrison

I even have 143% in the overall requirement and seems to not have taken many partisan hexes away. Am I doing something wrong? Will anyone tell me? That is the ultimate question. Since finally someone told me how to get the Minor Axis out of the Reserves and/or Soviet Garrison which I will share for all in a post shortly.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 10 Beginning of Turn

TB Boxes all green with only the Balkins in yellow @ 102%. So have these covered pretty well so far.