All Quiet on the Slaakman Front?

Forward_March · Post by **Forward_March** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 2:46 am

I think it would be nice if the man with such bluster, and obvious control of the English language would present us with some AAR's. Perhaps he and his opponent could show us what makes this individual so full of himself.

JagdFlanker · Post by **JagdFlanker** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 6:29 am

I'v only done 2 turns so far, and the last was sent wed, so it's going. I must admit, I'm VERY impressed with his little 'pre-planned play' he pulled on me, but it cost him his west front shattering in '43 so he is gambling he can get Moscow before winter. Because if you see/hear what the plan is you can probrably counter it, i'm just gonna let you guys take him on later and see how YOU react to it. It sure gave me a whole new perspective on the map! I was a little lucky since i started preparing first turn for an offensive and i happened to have some troops at the right place at the right time and was able to counter his move somewhat after the fact, but i still gotta get past his 'round 2' of attacks to see if i can pull out of it without getting too much of a bloody nose. His plan is pretty risky and works best with the element of surprise. i was looking at old posts to see if i can find info on stacking and i found he played a '43 game 6 months ago and won when the other guy gave up and didn't send him turns any more because he seemed frustrated.

anyhow, I will keep you all updated - I'm just waiting until turn 3 to see what I'm going to have to deal with!

Forward_March · Post by **Forward_March** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 8:42 am

Thanks for letting us know, Flanker_Leader. I've played that scenario as the Germans, and have no idea how one could make a decent offensive with the units all mixed up the way they were. It took me something like 3 turns to get my corps the way I wanted them. By which time, my cagey opponent (Brutus) had built up a double wall of soviet corps. I tried to break through, lost a PzKorps, and went on the defensive.
I know you're all out on screenshots, so I won't ask for more.

JagdFlanker · Post by **JagdFlanker** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 9:57 am

Might as well use this post to hear some comments on my K62 situation.

it's mid feb, and i pulled back past the dniepr to avoid squad casualties, even though i did take a good beating from the learning process and some shattering. casualties are:

ger/sov

squads 32513 / 76697
afv 2283 / 10589
guns 9048 / 19871
ac 9717 / 16746

think i can do anything in '42? i think so, but it's my first '42, so mabe i don't know all the details! i think my tank casualties are pretty low, at least!

btw, obviously because of my retreat i have to optimistically go for a '43 win. crazy thoughts, perhaps, but i don't know any better yet!

Forward_March · Post by **Forward_March** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 10:06 am

Flanker Leader wrote:Might as well use this post to hear some comments on my K62 situation.

it's mid feb, and i pulled back past the dniepr to avoid squad casualties, even though i did take a good beating from the learning process and some shattering. casualties are:

ger/sov

squads 32513 / 76697
afv 2283 / 10589
guns 9048 / 19871
ac 9717 / 16746

think i can do anything in '42? i think so, but it's my first '42, so mabe i don't know all the details! i think my tank casualties are pretty low, at least!

YOu've already destroyed 32,513 German Squads and 2283 tanks?!?!? Bloody hell, man you're doing fantastic! Yes, you've taken a beating, but you've bloodied him as well. I try, as the Germans to make it to winter without losing more than 15,000 squads.

I'd say he was in more trouble than you think.

I'd also say to keep your mobile forces in reserve this year, as well as some strong corps for point defense. Should he break your lines with deep plunges, then you can make him pay. An offensive plan of his to worry about would be for him to take you in nibbles, not plunging deep, but eating your corps up close to the front.

JagdFlanker · Post by **JagdFlanker** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 5:06 pm

I'm playing germany!

K62_ · Post by **K62_** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 9:20 pm

Forward_March wrote:YOu've already destroyed 32,513 German Squads and 2283 tanks?!?!? Bloody hell, man you're doing fantastic!

Thank you F_M

My opponent ran away during blizzard so most all of those casualties were inflicted before winter came. My main worry about '42 is that I'll get my replacement pool filled up

I already have 75k squads on the map

Forward_March · Post by **Forward_March** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 12:31 am

I think it's pretty gamey for the Germans to run during the blizzards. Sure, it's intelligent to get the panzers away as they're completely useless during those turns.

Then again, it's just as gamey for the Russian player to run all the way to the Rhzev-Vyazma line. Giving up gound for free wasn't on any totalitarian's plan for successful rule.

JagdFlanker · Post by **JagdFlanker** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:58 am

I would agree that both sides running in '41 is no better than the other, but the absolute bottom line is if you stay, you die - for both sides. I'm still waiting for the first post stating that Germany held through the '41/'42 winter in 3.3 while taking less than 20-25K total casualties, and until that happens there's no point in Germany sticking around because more than 25K casualties, or even perhaps less, and Germany has no chance for the rest of the game. If your whole line is going to shatter and yer gonna lose ground anyways, then you might as well just lose the ground w/o the casualties. In a way I blew it with my winter casualties this game, but it was worth it for planning my next game - I won't be doing the same thing at all!

BUT

until I'm proven wrong in this game, I'm just going to continue thinking I may still pull off a win, dreamworld or no!!

btw, i had at least 30 inf div's shatter during blizzard (many during a blizz during mid nov), so i would say i did lose a nice chunk of my casualties in winter!

Tom1939 · Post by **Tom1939** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:42 pm

Flanker Leader wrote:I would agree that both sides running in '41 is no better than the other, but the absolute bottom line is if you stay, you die - for both sides. I'm still waiting for the first post stating that Germany held through the '41/'42 winter in 3.3 while taking less than 20-25K total casualties, and until that happens there's no point in Germany sticking around because more than 25K casualties, or even perhaps less, and Germany has no chance for the rest of the game. If your whole line is going to shatter and yer gonna lose ground anyways, then you might as well just lose the ground w/o the casualties. In a way I blew it with my winter casualties this game, but it was worth it for planning my next game - I won't be doing the same thing at all!

BUT

until I'm proven wrong in this game, I'm just going to continue thinking I may still pull off a win, dreamworld or no!!

btw, i had at least 30 inf div's shatter during blizzard (many during a blizz during mid nov), so i would say i did lose a nice chunk of my casualties in winter!

Mr. Shane Burtfam from Australia did it as german with 3.3 against me as soviets:( He beat me in 41 real hard, and we had no house rules (special supply was allowed and used heavily by both of us).

SLAAKIE · Post by **SLAAKIE** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:45 pm

REPORT TO GREAT SLAAKAANVOERDER FROM LOYAL MINION CODENAME SLAAKIE: ALL IS GOING WELL ON THE FLAANKER LEAADER FRONT. HIS CONVERSION IS NEAR. HE HAS ALREADY SLAAKED OFF FROM SENDING TURN ON TUESDAY

GLORY BE TO SLAAKERY!!!

Forward_March · Post by **Forward_March** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:15 am

Flanker Leader wrote:I'm playing germany!

My apologies, F_L.

JagdFlanker · Post by **JagdFlanker** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:53 am

well Mr 1939, if he beat ya in '41 doesn't that mean you didn't go through winter? and if you did make it through, did much shatter? did you attack all his front every turn? just curious on details!!

Tom1939 · Post by **Tom1939** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:03 pm

Flanker Leader wrote:well Mr 1939, if he beat ya in '41 doesn't that mean you didn't go through winter? and if you did make it through, did much shatter? did you attack all his front every turn? just curious on details!!

Well, he took Lenningrad in 41. By beating I mean he destroyed way too many soviet troops. I attacked with medium strength units AND 2 monstre tank armies continously in blizzard turns. The result is only 1 or 2 shatter in the blizzard, and a average german loss of 1200-1400 squads per week (about 200 panzers as well). I tried my best I was very aggresive but still he stopped me. His infantry must be struck hard, but he is fine.

Tom1939 · Post by **Tom1939** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:30 pm

And I did survive 41 blizzards against Mr. Axel Wieschermann as germans. It's now march 42, I had one retreat no shatter. Before blizzards came I already took Moscow and Lenningrad, but I was to chicken to go for Gorky and digged in early october.

DanishPosh · Post by **DanishPosh** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:03 am

The key is exactly to dig in.
If you are fully dug in and in good supply, you can survive the Russian onslought somewhat. Make sure you defend the rails with your strongest units - even overstack them, as they are not supposed to move anywhere.
If you do this plus you have taken moscow in 41, you can survive.
42 then becomes a playground for your panzers taking Gorki with ease.

JagdFlanker · Post by **JagdFlanker** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:02 am

Well I guess it's worth a shot myself, since i never tried it, but as i see it all it takes is 1 shatter ot retreat and the whole line is screwed since Sov armies can now flood through the leak and cause the whole German line to withdraw. The thing is that when I play the Sovs unless there's severe restrictions on my attacking I really can't see the Germans withstanding an entire massive frontal assault for very long. Armies/Korps lose entrenchment every attack against them, right? I think it's gotta be impossible to hold the line through 12 weeks of constant attacks by a good Sov player. Unfortunatly I won't be in a position to be shown that i'm wrong for a while with 2 games on my plate, but after one ends I would love the honour of getting my rear supremely kicked by the almighty Josan, and I guess we'll see in his current K62 romp when winter hits what HE does (I might be putting my money on retreat

)

Brutus · Post by **Brutus** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:32 am

I've only played one 41/42 winter on german side but I believe it's possible to hold the line. Maybe you can't hold a strong line from Leningrad to Rostov, but if you want to hold a certain part of the front, you can do this. I digged in in front of Moscow after I've seen I can't hold it in the blizzards. Two lines of strong korps, with some panzerkorps in between. I used nearly all possible air supply and special supply to hold this part of the front, and my opponent was not able to do much damage there. In 12 or 13 weeks of nonstop blizzard, he could force two or three korps of the first line to retreat after heavy battles, but that was all. Ok, he shattered my very thin line of Army Group South and advanced nearly to Kiev there, but the same time, I could conquer Vologda with the finnish troops in the north.
Now I'm still in front of Moscow with very strong forces, only waiting for good weather, while he has get some ground in the south, that is not so important in my eyes.

I'm not really happy with the way the blizzard in WiR works, but there is a good chance to survive it in good positions.

JagdFlanker · Post by **JagdFlanker** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:41 am

wow, i really like your idea! i'm already plotting possibilities for next game, as i'd prefer not to retreat as germans, of coarse. mabe it can be done...

btw, casualties for slakkboy up to game turn 3:

ger / sov
sq: 4562 / 13692
afv:1129 / 1414
gun:1909 / 5968
ac: 1070 / 1691

he got 3-4 of my armies to surrender, and i got 1 of his Pz korps to surrender, with a possibility of 2 more later.

DanishPosh · Post by **DanishPosh** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:04 pm

Yes exactly.
Forget about the southern front. Both sides can do that. Just endless reaches of plain with no value.
Take as much ground as you can in the south and then fall back.
You only need to defend a line to the north of Kiev, passing Moscow up to Leningrad. This line can be double in certain places (around cities or important rails).
The Soviets cant exploit very far if they dont get the rails (just as you cant during the initial blitz).
And the airpower should also be centered around Moscow. This is you best mobile fighting force during the blizzard. Check each turn which Soviet Armies have a CV of 6-8. Bomb these units with everything you have, thus reducing their attacking power.

And lastly, forget about your allies. Use them as police forces against Partisans (except for the Slovaks and some Italian/Hungarian units and ofcourse the Finns).