Observation and Question

[MarkShot]

WITW (2014) has 6 pages of forum posts; WITE-2 (2021) has 43 pages of forum posts.

Why is WITE-2 seemingly so much more popular?

(I have been getting up to speed on WITW, and am planning to start my GG gaming career there; giving WITE-2 time to mature further.)

Thanks.

[Karri]

WITW concentrates much more on the Air War, AFAIK. And that's something most people aren't probably all that interested about. To be honest, I wouldn't mind if it was removed/simplified in WitE2.

[Fraggo5]

I would suggest that wite2 has been anticipated for so long and as it's a re work it has created a lot of interest and therefore sales. Hence more posts and a very active community.

[Joel Billings]

In my experience, Eastern Front games have always been twice as popular as Western Front games. That together with the fact that WitE came first, and the fact that as stated, air war games are generally less popular, all combines to make WitE get more attention than WitW. WitW also only covers 2 years of war instead of 4, so that's another hit against it.

[Darojax]

Another offputting aspect I've heard is that WitW is linear. There really is no way for the Germans to outright win in WitW, other than with Victory Points ofc. But it's all just how well or poor you lose. : ) In WitE1+2 you can properly both win or lose, obviously.

[Karri]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

In my experience, Eastern Front games have always been twice as popular as Western Front games.

Probably if we are on the strategic/operational level. If you go for FPS, tactical/operational then Western Front seems to be vastly more popular.

[Joel Billings]

It didn't used to be. Kampfgruppe sold much better than Battlegroup back in the 80s, and same for other similar comparisons in the 90s. Maybe things have changed, but that used to be the case.

[Denniss]

Ah, Kampfgruppe. The good old days. Loved to play it on the Amiga. Hated it when my Tigers got easily killed by T-34/76s from multiple hexes away

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Squad Leader East Front scenarios only. I wore the counters so bad playing Scenario 1, 2, and 3 I had to order new sets. The Russian Front, counters worn out, Third Reich, counters worn out. Also played Fire in the East & Scorched Earth wearing those counters out too. We actually got to mid 1942 in a 4 player game of Fire in the East/Scorched earth until the dog jumped up on the ping pong table we had it set up on at my friends house basement Needless to say we could not load a save. The East front is so much more intriguing. To be honest I actually have two copies of WITW and may have a couple hours play time in it, LOL. I just can not do it. German East Front all the way baby!!!

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Ah, Kampfgruppe. The good old days. Loved to play it on the Amiga. Hated it when my Tigers got easily killed by T-34/76s from multiple hexes away

That was my first Gary Grigsby game for Commodore 64 & had my computer shipped to Japan so I could play it while in the U.S. Marine Corps. Absolutely LOVED that game.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

But yeah, West front to me is so.... bleh

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Wait! There is ONE West Front game that was absolutely FANTASTIC!!! Longest Day by Avalon Hill. Now that game on the West Front is 100% golden down to company level. LOVED the PZ Lehr Division. Of course I played the Germans too.

[carlkay58]

I remember one game of Longest Day where the PZ Lehr Division split the US and British beaches and then proceeded to roll up both flanks tossing the Allies back into the sea. Not the only time the Germans won the game, but it was the most decisive.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Squad Leader East Front scenarios only. I wore the counters so bad playing Scenario 1, 2, and 3 I had to order new sets. The Russian Front, counters worn out, Third Reich, counters worn out. Also played Fire in the East & Scorched Earth wearing those counters out too. We actually got to mid 1942 in a 4 player game of Fire in the East/Scorched earth until the dog jumped up on the ping pong table we had it set up on at my friends house basement Needless to say we could not load a save. The East front is so much more intriguing. To be honest I actually have two copies of WITW and may have a couple hours play time in it, LOL. I just can not do it. German East Front all the way baby!!!

You might like The Dark Valley by GMT Games. You can get the Vassal module and all the rules.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
WITW (2014) has 6 pages of forum posts; WITE-2 (2021) has 43 pages of forum posts.

Why is WITE-2 seemingly so much more popular?

(I have been getting up to speed on WITW, and am planning to start my GG gaming career there; giving WITE-2 time to mature further.)

Thanks.

It's an incorrect comparison. You need to set your forum filter to show All Topics instead of just the last 365 days (which is the default). The answer is that WITE2 was released much more recently, so there is more recent activity.

Regards,

- Erik

[metaphore]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Squad Leader East Front scenarios only. I wore the counters so bad playing Scenario 1, 2, and 3 I had to order new sets. The Russian Front, counters worn out, Third Reich, counters worn out. Also played Fire in the East & Scorched Earth wearing those counters out too. We actually got to mid 1942 in a 4 player game of Fire in the East/Scorched earth until the dog jumped up on the ping pong table we had it set up on at my friends house basement Needless to say we could not load a save. The East front is so much more intriguing. To be honest I actually have two copies of WITW and may have a couple hours play time in it, LOL. I just can not do it. German East Front all the way baby!!!

I did that too (order new counter sets) but pined everything on my gaming room walls (instead of using a ping pong table) because it's so much safer... from our cat(s) who loved to punch the counter stacks all over the place!

GDW monsters were epic to set up on the walls and to play using removable glue pads (behind markers redirecting to stack content) and this was also making FOW possible.

But one of my all time favorite and most played was the Eastern Front from Columbia Games, which used wooden blocks with stickers.... and they had a Western Front too, which I also owned but barely played.

A West Front Game would be attractive if it covered all the early War Campaigns (Including Poland, and maybe the Spanish Civil War too) in Europe, then include those Mediterranean and African Operations up to the War end.

By itself, a stand alone 1944-45 West campaign is not very fun to play.

[MarkShot]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

It's an incorrect comparison. You need to set your forum filter to show All Topics instead of just the last 365 days (which is the default). The answer is that WITE2 was released much more recently, so there is more recent activity.

Regards,

- Erik

Thanks, Erik. Foolish of me. (That's what you get doing stuff at 2am when you are no longer young.)

The count came to 85 pages with other default settings.

---

I realize for many of you the heavy emphasis on the air war is a downer.

From 1992 - 2000, I almost exclusively played flight sims (sometimes via direct modem or the Internet). I gave up flying and racing due to joint problems, and began my interest in ground war. (I joined Matrix in 2003 as a beta with the move of Panther from Battlefront-BTS.) RDOA, HTTR, COTA, BFTB ... (I think these have been discontinued by Matrix.)

I loved air games with a campaign like F3/F4, BoB-Rowan, Mig-Alley-Rowan, Total Air War, EF-2000 ...

So, contrary to many when I saw WITW had an air war, and not one of minor significance in WITE-2 ... I was "WOW - 2 for the price of 1".

---

I have mixed feelings about huge campaigns. On one had, the bigger the more options, but it can become tedious. I like that WITE-2 is not just size or turns, but changing fortunes and tech. I agree with what Loki said that the games evolution through time is a dimension rarely modeled.

[TallBlondJohn]

I have WITE, WITW, WITE2.

WITE and WITE2 are just more fun. Partly that's the game play - I want to be the ground force commander, not the airforce, so much of WITW is a pain (WITE2's AI assist would help here). Partly its the campaign - the eastern front is the right scale and is continuous. Until late 1944 the WITW is a series of small (in Eastern front terms) dense (ditto) short (ditto) battles that would be better at a smaller scale.

I've always thought the Western game would be better if it started in 1939 and covered Poland, France and North Africa. OK the first two campaigns would still be short, but would be intense and on the right scale. If there was a way to optionally drop to daily turns for critical phases that would be the dream game.

[Zemke]

How about a MEGA game War in Europa at Regiment/Bde level, East and West with 2-3 day time turn scale and 5 mile or 10k hex scale, now we are talking!! In between Panzer Campaigns and WitE/W. I would buy that so fast.....

It would be the land campaign equivalent of War in the Pacific!!

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Squad Leader East Front scenarios only. I wore the counters so bad playing Scenario 1, 2, and 3 I had to order new sets. The Russian Front, counters worn out, Third Reich, counters worn out. Also played Fire in the East & Scorched Earth wearing those counters out too. We actually got to mid 1942 in a 4 player game of Fire in the East/Scorched earth until the dog jumped up on the ping pong table we had it set up on at my friends house basement Needless to say we could not load a save. The East front is so much more intriguing. To be honest I actually have two copies of WITW and may have a couple hours play time in it, LOL. I just can not do it. German East Front all the way baby!!!

You might like The Dark Valley by GMT Games. You can get the Vassal module and all the rules.

The Dark Valley is an absolute gem, I really like the chit mechanic and how it manages to keep the game flowing along the historical rails, but not too much at least to my taste.

I've done myself a filterable turn-by-turn rule excel, and edited the Vassal module to have VP tracking and some other stuff that I don't remember. PM me if anyone is interested in using these resources while playing TDV