Taming the Tiger or Slaying the Bear......loki100 (Axis) vs Speedy (SU)

[loki100]

there is the one by Bread that is probably a better example.

In this game at the moment, there isn't much happening (& turns are slow), so I'll do some sort of update when there is anything to really say

[Oberst Hausser]

It is close to pointless, however much enthusiasm there is therein, to glean much information about the game. With the advent of a substantial new patch as of 18/10/21 this makes it even more so.

You spent 2.5 hours before playing so that we could learn what?

Lets just calm down and read many AAR to get RELEVANT well understood pointers to the game.

AFTER 4 or so full play ( tests) both the reader and the player may be a in a better position to properly analyse the game.

[Oberst Hausser]

There have been some well argued suggestions that ASSAULT HQ should be reduced quite a bit.

1941 German 2-3 Russian 1
1942 German 3? 4 Russian 2
1943 German 3 Russian 3
1944 German 2 Russian 4

The AHQ artificially bolster each side in a way that TOTALLY alters the combat and supply situations. It is these that actually REPRESENT the war in 1941.

With what I have read of the new patch of 18/10/21 ( Making Panzers and possibly all motorised stronger) the makeup of Assault HQ as above " feels right" in relation to the historical account. Anyone with a better understanding of the game with a sound historical knowledge is welcome to comment herein

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Oberst Hausser

It is close to pointless, however much enthusiasm there is therein, to glean much information about the game. With the advent of a substantial new patch as of 18/10/21 this makes it even more so.

You spent 2.5 hours before playing so that we could learn what?

Lets just calm down and read many AAR to get RELEVANT well understood pointers to the game.

AFTER 4 or so full play ( tests) both the reader and the player may be a in a better position to properly analyse the game.

Sorry I don't understand what you mean? You don't think a game started ages ago and continuing into late 42 onwards is worth continuing?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Oberst Hausser

There have been some well argued suggestions that ASSAULT HQ should be reduced quite a bit.

1941 German 2-3 Russian 1
1942 German 3? 4 Russian 2
1943 German 3 Russian 3
1944 German 2 Russian 4

The AHQ artificially bolster each side in a way that TOTALLY alters the combat and supply situations. It is these that actually REPRESENT the war in 1941.

With what I have read of the new patch of 18/10/21 ( Making Panzers and possibly all motorised stronger) the makeup of Assault HQ as above " feels right" in relation to the historical account. Anyone with a better understanding of the game with a sound historical knowledge is welcome to comment herein

I'll be honest and confess I don't have a clue what you are trying to say, in either this post or the other one.

Any game that gets much beyond T20 (even vs AI) is going to be bridging patches, but handily

ORIGINAL: Oberst Hausser

...
AFTER 4 or so full play ( tests)[/b] both the reader and the player may be a in a better position to properly analyse the game.

I've played full games to 1944 or 1945 victory points three times so maybe I have some glimmer of how to analyse the game?

[Speedysteve]

The analysis is simple....Herr Loki is inferior to Comrade Speedyevsky[;)] Simples [;)]

[Beethoven1]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

The analysis is simple....Herr Loki is inferior to Comrade Speedyevsky[;)] Simples [;)]

Yep, Loki made the mistake of playing Germany. [8D]

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: loki100


I've played full games to 1944 or 1945 victory points three times so maybe I have some glimmer of how to analyse the game?

Versus the AI. Head to Head games are always different & this game with one other that I know about has made it to 42 from a 41 start.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

The analysis is simple....Herr Loki is inferior to Comrade Speedyevsky[;)] Simples [;)]

Ouch!!!

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

The analysis is simple....Herr Loki is inferior to Comrade Speedyevsky[;)] Simples [;)]

Yep, Loki made the mistake of playing Germany. [8D]

And just exactly is wrong with playing Germany?

[Beethoven1]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

And just exactly is wrong with playing Germany?

Nothing, if you like to lose. [8D]

Or alternatively, you can perhaps play Germany and not lose if you wait for a favorable patch (this is the best strategy), like the current patch seems to be more favorable to an as yet unknown degree.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

And just exactly is wrong with playing Germany?

Nothing, if you like to lose. [8D]

Or alternatively, you can perhaps play Germany and not lose if you wait for a favorable patch (this is the best strategy), like the current patch seems to be more favorable to an as yet unknown degree.

I disagree 100% the German side will lose. I know there was a great deal of propaganda that was spewed out the last couple of months by many proponents, and I too fell into that despair at the beginning of my AAR's. But I no longer believe at all the Germans will lose. I find it quite on the contrary that the Germans are very strong and very capable to win with in WITE2 and too many have fell into the trap of the propaganda.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

And just exactly is wrong with playing Germany?

Nothing, if you like to lose. [8D]

Or alternatively, you can perhaps play Germany and not lose if you wait for a favorable patch (this is the best strategy), like the current patch seems to be more favorable to an as yet unknown degree.

I disagree 100% the German side will lose. I know there was a great deal of propaganda that was spewed out the last couple of months by many proponents, and I too fell into that despair at the beginning of my AAR's. But I no longer believe at all the Germans will lose. I find it quite on the contrary that the Germans are very strong and very capable to win with in WITE2 and too many have fell into the trap of the propaganda.

I started believing this under patch .09.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1




Nothing, if you like to lose. [8D]

Or alternatively, you can perhaps play Germany and not lose if you wait for a favorable patch (this is the best strategy), like the current patch seems to be more favorable to an as yet unknown degree.

I disagree 100% the German side will lose. I know there was a great deal of propaganda that was spewed out the last couple of months by many proponents, and I too fell into that despair at the beginning of my AAR's. But I no longer believe at all the Germans will lose. I find it quite on the contrary that the Germans are very strong and very capable to win with in WITE2 and too many have fell into the trap of the propaganda.

I started believing this under patch .09.

Just like Joel Billings has said & I paraphrase, "There is a learning curve for the Germans to overcome to be on current level of play as the Soviets". Once those pistons start firing on all cylinders you are going to see a German war machine that can accomplish feats in the game. /off soapbox

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

The analysis is simple....Herr Loki is inferior to Comrade Speedyevsky[;)] Simples [;)]

really no need to say any more ... [;)]

actually in this game, my core problem was my own fault in that I had a brief opportunity (around T12-14) to do real damage and rather lost the plot with grandiose fantasies of what I might be able to do

so while 1941 took place at a time when I think the game was off kilter, I don't particularly think that was the core reason for this bit of a guddle in 1942 - and the inevitable fall out as the game develops

and to HLYA, yes I play the AI, even worse, I quite enjoy vs AI games. They also have the huge merit of getting into the mid/end game and thus chuck up a lot of bugs, oddities and undocumented 'features'. Over time we then deal with the bugs and get the 'features' documented.

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

...

Versus the AI. Head to Head games are always different & this game with one other that I know about has made it to 42 from a 41 start.

that we don't have any documented HtH games that went to (never mind past) the initiative change is one reason I'm sticking with this, I want to understand how the AI baseline compares. We have StB but inevitably no 1941 GC is going to map onto that. Tyrone has stated that the Germans can't defend post-43, I think he may well be right but we don't know. My AI test says opposite so again the capacity is there, but whether a HtH allows that latent capacity to have an effect is a different question

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: loki100



and to HLYA, yes I play the AI, even worse, I quite enjoy vs AI games. They also have the huge merit of getting into the mid/end game and thus chuck up a lot of bugs, oddities and undocumented 'features'. Over time we then deal with the bugs and get the 'features' documented.

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

...

Versus the AI. Head to Head games are always different & this game with one other that I know about has made it to 42 from a 41 start.

that we don't have any documented HtH games that went to (never mind past) the initiative change is one reason I'm sticking with this, I want to understand how the AI baseline compares. We have StB but inevitably no 1941 GC is going to map onto that. Tyrone has stated that the Germans can't defend post-43, I think he may well be right but we don't know. My AI test says opposite so again the capacity is there, but whether a HtH allows that latent capacity to have an effect is a different question

Nothing wrong with playing against the AI and support it 100% to find answers. Just saying that H2H is different and we won't have answers there for at least a year when h2h games can possibly get there I appreciate all the AI work you have done for the game.

I love Tyronec a great deal but many times I have not agreed with him on many items, many items I have agreed. This is another one I feel that the Germans are capable of making it to 44 & 45. Granted this is just a feeling at the moment & I have no hard evidence besides my own experience as the Germans up to Dec 41 & a StoB scenario. I hope to have two AAR's up to a minimum of Dec 44 to find out which will take a few years to accomplish.

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

The analysis is simple....Herr Loki is inferior to Comrade Speedyevsky[;)] Simples [;)]

really no need to say any more ... [;)]

actually in this game, my core problem was my own fault in that I had a brief opportunity (around T12-14) to do real damage and rather lost the plot with grandiose fantasies of what I might be able to do

so while 1941 took place at a time when I think the game was off kilter, I don't particularly think that was the core reason for this bit of a guddle in 1942 - and the inevitable fall out as the game develops

and to HLYA, yes I play the AI, even worse, I quite enjoy vs AI games. They also have the huge merit of getting into the mid/end game and thus chuck up a lot of bugs, oddities and undocumented 'features'. Over time we then deal with the bugs and get the 'features' documented.

Yes I agree with you overall. It was that crucial late summer/early autumn period which could have made things different through 1942 onwards.

From my side I've, naturally, learnt and improved my play a lot throughout. I feel I've got the Soviet side to a reasonably well oiled machine right now. I've defended in depth, placed my units in what (I think) are good positions, build the right balance of SU's, logistics is fine for now etc....now it's time to think of the offensive side of the Soviet gambit

[Speedysteve]

Hi All,

I decided I'd post a brief update as to the current state of play as it's been a strange summer of 1942 with no substantial Axis gains. Since mid-August the Axis have pulled back to a defensive line and stopped attacking any further. For now I won't hide anything from view since I simply cant conduct any substantial offensive due to the NM disparity and weaker TOE's compared to later in the war.

Here's the overall view:

[Speedysteve]

One of my mini-games right now is to get as much as possible to Guards status and the extra vodka rations that Uncle Joe provides to those men....I've got 29 units sitting there over 8 wins that aren't Guards status as well so many more should be joining the 'Vodka Club' soon [:)]

[Speedysteve]

Losses. I won't show the Air losses as I've effectively stood down the VVS for the last 6-8 weeks. This has been for 3 main reasons:

1.) With no chance of an Axis victory why sacrifice my men when:
2.) NM disparity is so great even if they fly Eurofighters they'd get annihilated and
3.) I'm training my pilots and ensuring they're flying the latest machines