Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub

[HardLuckYetAgain]

I may just bite the bullet and continue the game with Air as it is Thinking still on it but miss the game already.

But in the meantime I did a few test that were interesting and I am sure people already know this but going to show it anyway. Here are my two PZ Divisions I received as reinforcements this turn. Lets test how many damaged tanks you get for moving just 1 hex, then 10 hexes, then 40 hexes and see the results. Here is this first move and the damaged tanks for just moving one hex on roads.

3 tanks are damaged from moving one hex on roads I reset the PZ Division and will now try 10 hex movement and check the damage tanks.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

A movement of 10 hexes on roads I net 12 tanks damaged. Now lets in the next snapshot do all 40 MP's and see what we get. Mind you this is on decent roads too. In Mother Russia not many good roads.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Holy Mother of goodness I have a boat load of damage tanks and elements moving all MP's!!! 51 tanks alone are damaged I will undo the move and move these by rail but wanted to show the elements being damaged for anyone that may have not looked at that but I am sure all have.

***Again this was all done on good roads so you can expect even higher in Mother Russia with her non-road system ;-P

[erikbengtsson]

Looking forward to seeing this continue. Surely, the latest beta patch must have piqued your interest.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: erikbengtsson

Looking forward to seeing this continue. Surely, the latest beta patch must have piqued your interest.

The game is continuing for sure, as long as Jubjub continues. Let me be clear that I had no problem with the ground game at all & the current patch of .15 just enhances my convection that the Germans are very powerful. My concern is the Air war. The air base morale is a step forward in this patch but I won't benefit from that until next turn since I am already at the end of my turn here.

Now having said that I am going to go ahead and go forward with the game knowing that the Air changes wont take place for awhile. I should have this game turn back to Jubjub tomorrow for continuation and I will update the AAR accordingly. Accordingly would be once I receive turn 13 back from Jubjub since this turn I have 37 Divisions in pockets this turn & another possible surround in the works to cut off another 8 units. But that won't happen for sure but it is in the works if not paid attention to.

Here are the patch notes for those reading this in the future. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5088754

[Iam5not8]

When you read Belton Cooper's "Death Trap" :

"A task force of 50 tanks moving thirty to forty miles a day will have between 15 and 20 tanks drop out during the day just for maintenance and repair. These repairs could include everything from the minor changing of spark plugs and V belts to the actual replacements of transmission and track suspension elements."

During the Anschluss in 1938, the 2nd PzDivision lost 30% of its tanks just cruising on austrian roads due to mechanical failures.

Then of course, the figures do not mean much as we don't have the definition either in those examples, or in the games.
Nevertheless, it does give a good clue.

I also read somewhere -but can retrieve the source right now - that a tank in WW2 could last betwenen 700 to 1000 km before it needs a full rebuild / revision.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Just when I thought it was safe to go back into the waters this came out. Game back on hold until at a minimum my fighters can auto-intercept GS if it is used. Here is the link https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... =&#5090724

I was almost done with the turn too

[erikbengtsson]

I'm sure it will be patched up quickly.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: erikbengtsson

I'm sure it will be patched up quickly.

I am sure it will. But the air war needs some "Tender Loving Care" badly.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

At least the dual track line to Leningrad has been cut

[Joel Billings]

If they are in GS ADs, the units will intercept. If they aren't in GS ADs, it does appear they won't auto intercept now. I'm going to be out of the office now until Monday. This isn't going to get patched before I get back, and then it may take some time to figure out what changed.

[Jango32]

I've always read the auto-interception rules as requiring an assignment to a ground support AD. Rereading the section from the manual though, I think I see where the problem may lie - specifically the air doctrine settings when a GS air directive is missing.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

If they are in GS ADs, the units will intercept. If they aren't in GS ADs, it does appear they won't auto intercept now. I'm going to be out of the office now until Monday. This isn't going to get patched before I get back, and then it may take some time to figure out what changed.

Since I already did my Air Phase long ago I can't go and add a GS AD. Not that I would actually even fly a GS mission since that in and of itself is suicide to your planes in the defensive phase(this really needs an overview and revamp for GS in H2H) Not to mention that my fighters that should be only flying in the "Enemy Phase AS" are already fatigued, out of supply, and possibly not going to fly when I had set them to the enemy phase having inadvertently suffered OPS losses during my ground attack phase. This has been addressed ad-nauseum in numerous posts. So I have to rely on auto-intercept in and of itself which according to the aforementioned post wont happen. All of this has taken a large chunk of my fighters and destroyed them without even shooting down a single Soviet Aircraft.


I really am disheartened at the current state of the air war in WITE@ and I have been this close >|< to calling it quits on more than a few occasions. The only sheet of paper between why I have not outright quit is because I love the game, I also have invested a great deal of time to this match & AAR. But it is to the point that I feel the Air War just is not functional to the standards I would like to see so I either wait or quit the game...

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

If they are in GS ADs, the units will intercept. If they aren't in GS ADs, it does appear they won't auto intercept now. I'm going to be out of the office now until Monday. This isn't going to get patched before I get back, and then it may take some time to figure out what changed.

Since I already did my Air Phase long ago I can't go and add a GS AD. Not that I would actually even fly a GS mission since that in and of itself is suicide to your planes in the defensive phase(this really needs an overview and revamp for GS in H2H) Not to mention that my fighters that should be only flying in the "Enemy Phase AS" are already fatigued, out of supply, and possibly not going to fly when I had set them to the enemy phase having inadvertently suffered OPS losses during my ground attack phase. This has been addressed ad-nauseum in numerous posts. So I have to rely on auto-intercept in and of itself which according to the aforementioned post wont happen. All of this has taken a large chunk of my fighters and destroyed them without even shooting down a single Soviet Aircraft.


I really am disheartened at the current state of the air war in WITE@ and I have been this close >|< to calling it quits on more than a few occasions. The only sheet of paper between why I have not outright quit is because I love the game, I also have invested a great deal of time to this match & AAR. But it is to the point that I feel the Air War just is not functional to the standards I would like to see so I either wait or quit the game...

Nutshell explanation, "I am tired of wasting my time"

[K62_]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Not that I would actually even fly a GS mission since that in and of itself is suicide to your planes in the defensive phase(this really needs an overview and revamp for GS in H2H)

Not sure if this helps, but when I don't want my planes to fly during the AI phase I would either delete the GS directive right before hitting end turn or switch a bunch of air groups to rest. I think it's also possible to change the GS doctrine.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: K62

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Not that I would actually even fly a GS mission since that in and of itself is suicide to your planes in the defensive phase(this really needs an overview and revamp for GS in H2H)

Not sure if this helps, but when I don't want my planes to fly during the AI phase I would either delete the GS directive right before hitting end turn or switch a bunch of air groups to rest. I think it's also possible to change the GS doctrine.

Correct, and I have deleted AD's before. I have not tried changing the type of AD they were on though. But in essence I want my fighters to fly. I also would like to engage the enemy too before losing a great many planes to just OPS loses.

So, you are from DC K62? Or the surrounding areas? I live in Northern Virginia.

[Zovs]

Well you can at any time after turn 1 go in and delete all your AD and then create brand new ones. I have done since I started play testing. I have not had issues exactly with seeing intercepting when doing this, as long as you had a GS AD setup. At least that was always my understanding of how Interception takes place. You can go in each turn and delete everything and then if all you do is add in GS for each of the Lufts your good to go.

Way back when I was trying to understand how the Air system worked, I would turn on AI assist when it was first introduced and watch and analyzed how it created AD and moved AOG's. Then as I got more confident and more understanding I would delete them and experiment.

So then I got in the habit (before switching over to manual air) of deleting all the last turn AD and let the AI re-create them, then little by little would Just not use the AI assist and make my own.

What I generally always seen was that as long as there was GS on the AG would intercept.

[K62_]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

So, you are from DC K62? Or the surrounding areas? I live in Northern Virginia.

Yes, NoVa here too. Not technically DC (as my brother-in-law is very fond of reminding) but close enough as far as anyone cares outside the Beltway.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Well you can at any time after turn 1 go in and delete all your AD and then create brand new ones. I have done since I started play testing. I have not had issues exactly with seeing intercepting when doing this, as long as you had a GS AD setup. At least that was always my understanding of how Interception takes place. You can go in each turn and delete everything and then if all you do is add in GS for each of the Lufts your good to go.

Way back when I was trying to understand how the Air system worked, I would turn on AI assist when it was first introduced and watch and analyzed how it created AD and moved AOG's. Then as I got more confident and more understanding I would delete them and experiment.

So then I got in the habit (before switching over to manual air) of deleting all the last turn AD and let the AI re-create them, then little by little would Just not use the AI assist and make my own.

What I generally always seen was that as long as there was GS on the AG would intercept.

You can't make new AD's during the Ground phase, hence my situation. I don't have a problem intercepting, it is the cumulation of items all hitting at the same time from needing patches, updates, and Air needing tender loving care. I am pretty sure I have a good grasp of the Air parameters. It is the inner workings that is at fault.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: K62

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

So, you are from DC K62? Or the surrounding areas? I live in Northern Virginia.

Yes, NoVa here too. Not technically DC (as my brother-in-law is very fond of reminding) but close enough as far as anyone cares outside the Beltway.

OH!!!! Woodbridge area for me. And you?