Reserves!

[DeletedUser1769703214]

You have to "admire the love" that the Soviets see from the GAWDS above of getting magical units that don't effect the local rail, freight, supply, air and/or other items I may have left out. As if by Magic this MASS of units appear with no detrimental effect on local resources, namely rail. You got to be kidding me! At a minimum have only a specific number of units that can appear around towns, cities, and major metropolitan areas. Even consider putting a hit on the rail for men getting railed to this area. But at the moment the game models a fantasy reinforcements schedule for reserves I would expect in a fantasy game not one that is modeling history.

[Jango32]

Doesn't the same apply to the Axis reinforcements?

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Jango32

Doesn't the same apply to the Axis reinforcements?

In this quantity? Unequivocally NO! But whatever is good for one side is good for the other since I am always fair. This is pure "magic" with no detrimental side effects for "either" side which in reality it would on local resources. Does that answer your question?

[Jango32]

Well, not in the same quantity, but as a mechanic. I think it may simply be an engine oversight that advantages both sides, but much more noticeably the Soviets because they tend to brings a lot more units.

[Beethoven1]

I do agree that reinforcements should ideally probably have some immediate effect of some sort on rail capacity. But for some context, this is the first turn of the Stalingrad to Berlin scenario, deploying basically all the Soviet reserve infantry there immediately. This particular situation would not arise that normally (at least not with THIS many divisions) in a normal game, because most of the time Soviets would not have that many reserves to deploy in an ongoing game, with the exception of the very early turns in 1941.

[panzer51]

Axis units appear in Berlin, so you still have to wheel them to the front.

[jubjub]

You can set the spawn to Warsaw. They can unload in Smolensk the same turn that they arrive.

[AlbertN]

HYLA point is about quantity - I do not think in general the Germans ever get to deploy large chunks of divisions at once from the Reserves.

Soviets do.

I honestly thought it takes rail capacity to shift reserves around from a NSS (Albeit many can pop around Moscow at once - that I'd give).

[Zemke]

What is that like 33 Divisions? Roughly 330,000 men just appear out of thin air, yep that is BS. No Soviet bias here.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Zemke

What is that like 33 Divisions? Roughly 330,000 men just appear out of thin air, yep that is BS. No Soviet bias here.

yep agree, there is no bias, so why raise the issue?

[carlkay58]

I took this on in the AAR it is from but I will do so again here.

Units arriving from the Reserve have no trucks, command assignment aside from the highest HQ (OKW or STAVKA), no CPP, and no supplies. I am not sure if they arrive before or after supply distribution but I believe it is before.

Without supplies or leadership (except the national HQ which will be affected by extreme leadership penalties) these units are useless on the turn they arrive. If they do arrive before supply distribution then they are a source of HIGH demand regardless of supply priority. This means they will suck all of the supply available in the area with high demand on supply trucks and logistics rail net. This is an immense strain on any supply net and if you are talking about ten or more divisions they will be demanding an amount of supplies and trucks that would normally be sufficient for two or three armies in normal situations. If you want a real supply mess then you are going to get it.

So the units arrive where you wish within ten or more hexes from the enemy front line the turn before their arrival. They have no supplies or trucks with them so they will attempt to absorb a large amount of both which stresses the rail and supply net in the area. They have large leadership check penalties so there will be large amounts of waste in both trucks and supplies.

Units arrive from the Reserve on turn x. This turn they will be assigned to local HQs for better command and control but almost all will be at less than 40% of supplies and trucks. The second turn they are there they will still be a major drain again although they should end the turn with some CPP and probably about 70 - 80% of the supplies and trucks. It is possible to get this higher but for the units to be fully ready for battle it will take two turns. If you have to put the units into the front line on the turn they arrive they are, in HYLA's favorite phrase, 'easy pickings'.

One method that will speed this process up a bit, but still require two turns, is to use Air Supply to bring more supplies into the area. But even if you fly 1,000 tons into the area, if you have ten or more divisions in this group you will still fall far short of the necessary supplies for these units. I seem to recall calculating out that a Soviet Rifle Division at 80% TOE will require over 250 tons of supplies to bring it up to 100% supply. Air Supply will not help at all with the needed trucks.

These facts affect both Axis and Soviets alike - therefore it is not biased one way or the other.

[Zemke]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: Zemke

What is that like 33 Divisions? Roughly 330,000 men just appear out of thin air, yep that is BS. No Soviet bias here.

yep agree, there is no bias, so why raise the issue?

I am sure it is not intended bias, but does advantage the Soviet Side. What is the justification for such an absurdity? Why do 300,000+ men just appear on the map? Something like this is not a big deal playing the AI, but in PvP it is. Perhaps there needs to be a PvP Campaign Scenario and the current Campaign Scenario is for the AI only.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: Zemke

What is that like 33 Divisions? Roughly 330,000 men just appear out of thin air, yep that is BS. No Soviet bias here.

yep agree, there is no bias, so why raise the issue?

Really?

[DeletedUser1769703214]

People will figure it out soon enough just like I said on many many many other things which have come to fruition. This will get shoved under the rug as already being fair but I am sorry to say this, "but many are not thinking deep enough on how this can be used". I will wait as I always do since I don't want to bang heads with closed minds.

I have more important things to do like "kicking the cats".

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: Zemke

What is that like 33 Divisions? Roughly 330,000 men just appear out of thin air, yep that is BS. No Soviet bias here.

yep agree, there is no bias, so why raise the issue?

Really?

I will just use two words and two words only for why to "raise the issue". "realism" & "historical"

[Rosencrantus]

I mean, from my perspective, what carlray58 said about actually suppling those units seem to be right. I'm playing Axis against tyronec and even when I transfer 5 divisions (3 panzer, 2 infantry, so like 58,000 men) onto the map the reserve arrival hex at Warsaw has nowhere enough supply to fully stock up those units and give enough trucks in a single turn (berlin would, but the units are further away from the front and you still have to pass rolls bypassing most of command). So it'll obviously take more than a few turns to fully supply those 30+ rifle divisions, especially as the leadership rolls will be quite poor. Only way I see a use for this is for the Soviets to immediately send out these units on the front for defense but with no CPP and low supplies they are free food. I'm trying to figure out a way on how dumping a whole bunch of weak divisions in normal circumstances can hugely impact the game as the only time the Soviets can pump out this many units from the reserves is at the beginning of the scenario, making this situation in it itself an obvious outlier from what is normally seen.

[821Bobo]

Poor Soviets, now good luck to rail those units to place where they are needed. Spawning huge number of units in one place is exact opposite of benefit(except the case when you want all units in one place).
Regarding the implausibility, reserve TB is not some specific place in Soviet Union but virtual to make handling certain things easier. You can look at this specific situation like all these 33 conscript divisions were built near Tula.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

Poor Soviets, now good luck to rail those units to place where they are needed. Spawning huge number of units in one place is exact opposite of benefit(except the case when you want all units in one place).
Regarding the implausibility, reserve TB is not some specific place in Soviet Union but virtual to make handling certain things easier. You can look at this specific situation like all these 33 conscript divisions were built near Tula.

exactly, next turn they are going to be struggling to get MP over 8, and any attempt to redeploy will be difficult due to having to rely on local rail capacity.

but ... lets have another thread on how biased the game design is [&:]

[MarkShot]

You left out the old spooky interaction at a distance of quantum entanglement of how SUs can move seemingly travel faster than light.

The other day, I proved SUs are particles not waves as they have mass. I was using the old trick to set every HQ to zero so that SHAEF would be holding all of them next turn. Well, to my irritation, Ike's HQ had become so massive that he was over the 90K tons and over the port limit of Algiers.

Who says there are no quantum affects in games?

[Gunnulf]

Something has to be abstracted somewhere, it's got nothing to do with bias or trying to screw the axis. As carlcay notes it's not without serious consequences. There has to a a viable alternative to getting this many troops out of reserves and into the field. I'm sure many things were considered, having a limit to how many should be able to turn up each turn at any given point might be simple(ish), or a few fixed mobilisation points around national supply points that could be selected via a TB drop down same way as TB transfers but instead to points on map that reflect divisions mustering. But never going to be able to get around that units will appear somewhere whether you call or magic or abstraction.