War in the Pacific Elessar (A) vs. OldCrowBalthazor (J) [*NO* OCB]

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Elessar2
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RE: War in the Pacific Elessar (Allies) vs. OldCrowBalthazor (Japan) [*NO* OCB]

Post by Elessar2 »

T37 Sept 25 1943

Alright, it's the night before the Big Enchilada, and all 3 task forces are in place:

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The reason why the battleship line is strung out is that I am right behind his 15 hex passive search line, and my old BB's can only move 16 (wanted to have them bombard as many islands as they can next turn). I forgot I needed to have them right behind the line, so the CLs (which I placed first) were arranged to have the BB's in two rows (which as said is too far away). If he does a manual search in this direction he'll pick them up, but I got cap covering them. The 2nd CV task force is refueling from the port there.

Quick rundown of everything else: China, killed another SF (he tried to bugger it off but forgot he left it in the port), damaged a 2nd down to 3 points (he attacked my tank corps, which for like the 4th time retreated again).

India remained quiet tho the rain stopped but didn't want to get his fighters to retaliate vs. my autospotted planes next turn (we know how that has gone in the past), plus my tanks were busy repairing.

Australia, his ships took peeks into my NW ports in search of amphibs (but haven't launched them there-yet). MacArthur's boys moved into position as I upgraded his planes.

I also forgot that amphibs won't move their full movement until the FOLLOWING turn, rrr (I mean I knew that but in the heat of the moment simply had a brain fart), so the Hawaiian ones are still stuck back there, but they'll get their chance to take something I am sure. I also had to sell back 2 chits [Advanced Fighters & AA] to afford them after all of the other upgrading I did.

But got THREE break-a-throughs, Ind Tech, Advanced Subs, AND Ground Attack (which actually got me another level), so not worried, since MacArthur's flyboys will now get extra oomph in their bombing runs. My S&I edge is likely +2 at this point, which is worth an extra chit for all techs.

Theatre: S&I picked up 2 BC's and 2 CVL's near Wake Island, so my fleet is safe from his CVs for one more turn:

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Now a quick primer on the options available to both sides in a battle like this one:


Hunting the Most Dangerous Game

Because of how the SC game system works, the stark truth is that the carrier force that gets in the first set of strikes is the one which will have the edge. While remedying this state of affairs from a coding perspective is a topic for a different thread, it presents quite a tactical dilemma.

Balthazor has already been on record as indicating that he likes to leave "bait" laying around in the form of other ships; the enemy CV force takes the bait, thus revealing themselves, and opening themselves up to the enemy's riposte. During our earlier cat and mouse game around Midway 9 months ago (the Turn 24 notes has an awesome pic of both fleets), I was constantly counting the spaces between his carriers and mine, and making sure when I ended my turn that mine were out of range of his (at maximum movement, which in the mod is 22 hexes). If the weather had cooperated I had a shot at him, but no clear weather hexes were within range of his flattops, and I was at that time still outnumbered by him (8 to 6 fleet CVs not including his 4 CVLs), and likely would have sailed back to Pearl anyway.

So, what to do, what to do...

1) Just say the hey with it, sail in there boldly, take whatever slings and arrows come my way, and try to even things up on my turn. Testing revealed that a carrier can be sunk after an average of 3 hits. I do have Radar L2 which gives a +1 overall bonus to their defense. His current force of 9 CV + 4 CVL contains 22 actions. He'll have to save at least half for escort missions tho, so that's 11 strikes. If I am lucky I'll only lose 3, and his remaining ships' air wings will likely be more beat up than mine. I'll have at least 16 hopefully 18 actions left, 9 strikes 3 of his carriers are toast (note I gave IJN carriers a -0.5 defense penalty to reflect their subpar damage control and lightweight construction), and we're now even, with my other builds coming in over the next 8 months (I got #12 last turn along with the Iowa; they'll be upgraded and sent along towards the battlefield ASAP).

At this point both carrier fleets will likely be exhausted, leaving the battle to the surface units. He has an edge in cruisers, but I have more of both types of battleships, which will likely carry the day (my sub and ASW techs are also +1 level better than his last I checked). At worse we both break even, but now we both have likely ~2000 MPPs worth of repairs to do, which for me will take 2.5 turns of income, but for him 8 turns. [6 for the next version of the mod]

2) Continue the cat & mouse games, wait for the right moment to strike. This will involve screening forces (the bait) arrayed along the approaches to where my fleet is lurking. The most expendable unit I have is the light cruisers. My old battlewagons will be bombarding their island targets first, arrayed N-S. I may place the CL's along a SW-NE line with my carriers a given distance to the SE. If I place the latter within escort range they'll protect the cruisers but eat up my air wings (and his), and will also give away my carriers' positions, and if he can get within range of them then we're back to scenario #1.

3) Bugger back to Pearl, refit, reload, return with even more ships. But those National Morale penalties will start hurting, esp. Port Moresby for the Aussies. Plus we both have been itching to test this huge carrier clash. If I leave the Australian-based forces hanging out to dry he'll devastate them. This way he'll be too busy dealing with my fleet to bother them much.
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Elessar2
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RE: War in the Pacific Elessar (Allies) vs. OldCrowBalthazor (Japan) [*NO* OCB]

Post by Elessar2 »

T 38 Oct 13 1943

Operation Tsunami is in full swing.

He sent me a PM with a cutesy smiley, which made me wonder what mischief he was up to. Did he decide to throw caution to the wind and invade Hawaii? [He has no spare SF they are all in China] His carriers aren't up near Marcus Island and got the jump on mine?

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Nope. One of his subs got into a gap I left in one of my carrier task forces, and did 4 points of damage (the island to the SE of the pic). Not to worry, I sunk it and dinged up 2 more of its buddies down to 5, and the carrier was right next to a port, swapped it with a damaged CA and got it back up to 8.

Since I fubared my 3 SF coming from Hawaii, they were one turn behind the main fleet, and after depth charging his subs I had no choice but to move them close enough for my destroyers to cover them with their remaining movement points, moves he'll see in the replay...

Meanhoo my old BB's shelled 4 of his islands. Oddly they didn't find a single plane (none of which scouted out my fleets either), so he must have pulled them back. Just a lousy garrison...

The S&I pings now had his fleet just S of Wake Island. I inferred where his carriers were and made sure mine were out of range, tho the battlewagons will be. My guess is that (worse case scenario) he can reach the 2nd from the top DD in the screenie. The BB's can likely fend for themselves for a turn (their AA will do a definite number on his air wings). Rain prevented any strikes (of empty island towns which is good since the flattops won't lose any supply or strength).

The Iowa and its 2 carrier buddies are warping like mad to the combat zone as fast as divine grace can carry them. Note he got one last turn too.

Just a waiting game now.

China, killed another SF (red X) and garrison (blue X).

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Australia, the amphibs all got launched. I'll LOL at those silly snooping ships of his when they come sniffing that port SW of Darwin.

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Theatre:

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The US had enough funds to spring for another tank corps.
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Elessar2
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RE: War in the Pacific Elessar (Allies) vs. OldCrowBalthazor (Japan) [*NO* OCB]

Post by Elessar2 »

T 39 Halloween 1943

Welp, the Mother of All Battles is off to a very disappointing start, a very mystifying one, to be exact...

Here is the aftermath:

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You may note several things.

All of my carriers have 332 stats (Naval/Fighter/Long Range). [As said upthread I declined to spring for upgrading their L3 Long Range, and wait for Fighters 4 which I'll get in a couple more turns]

Quite a few of my carriers (the ones set to Naval/Tactical Mode) now have zero for their air wings. The ones which don't (my escorts) have been dinged up to various degrees.

Long story short I sank ONE fleet carrier. The bastard needed like 8 hits to finally do him in. I had 3 more strikes left, which damaged a 2nd one down to maybe 6.

This was utterly contrary to my playtesting dry runs. I honestly am completely befuddled. In all of my vs. AI games in the past I would easily do 2-5 points per strike. Not this time. [A land based fighter did do 2 intercepts note] Only way to explain these results would be if he was...well there really isn't. He might have had Level 4 Fighter Tech, but my testing involved me being down one level in that plus the tech doesn't apply to carrier vs. carrier battles anyway. I was still able to effectively bomb him (Naval Tech both even) in the dry runs. Not only that, but as intimated I would typically lose 6-8 points to my air wings on their bombing runs. I have Radar L2, I believe he has L1, tho it could also be L2 perhaps (each level gives carriers +0.5 vs. air attacks, incl. other carriers). The experience edge that 4 of his fleet units have would mean an extra point of damage added or subtracted here and there, but nothing like this.

My only other straw to grasp would be that the strikes were done at close to max range, but again I don't recall that making a difference in the past. [Note I've been playing this series for over a dozen years now] In one vs. AI game I sank like 15 enemy carriers (I was Japan) with no losses of mine (yeah AI is dumb but the strikes themselves should all have the same math behind them). Strikes would go off without a hitch and do the 2-5 value mentioned above, I'd take some damage back, but not 6-8 points during one strike. I certainly never recall whacking a single target 8 times before it finally went down.

I'll have to see how he does on his turn, if he has the same issue. The cavalry in the form of the Iowa and his 2 flat-topped friends there to the east may not save the day...

Welp the good news is that the invasion of Port Moresby is going off well, with just one hitch:

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I forgot the short-ranged Amphibs can't Cruise, so used the wrong unit to take Milne Bay and not Buna like I intended. That's ok MacArthur is on the way and I'll just plop him down there next turn no problem.

Near Darwin sunk a CL & a DD. Still not sure what to do with the Aussie invaders...either Timor or Merauke, depends on what is garrisoning them. He never took Saumlaki so I plopped my Maritime buff there for extra scouting.

China, took Swatow, while India finally killed that division. I'd like to plop my paratrooper behind his line near Moulmein next turn if I can but want to ensure my tanks can bridge to it to keep it above zero supply.

Otherwise it may be lights out for the US Navy if some key facet of the game has escaped me here. Only saving grace is that I now have 12 fleet carriers and 3 lights, to his 8 & 4 (he has a recent build back in Japan tho), plus my heavies are still in pretty good shape, while many of his cruisers and destroyers are pretty leaky.
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RE: War in the Pacific Elessar (Allies) vs. OldCrowBalthazor (Japan) [*NO* OCB]

Post by Elessar2 »

T40 Nov 18 1943, Requiem for the US Navy...

Very long and bloody story short he sank 4 fleet CVs and 2 CVL's, along with most of my old BB's and 3 of my new ones.

Here is the pitiful remnants of my once grand fleet after they scuttled off to the south:

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The difference-maker as it turned out almost certainly was National Morale. Before the battle the US had seen theirs drop below 70%, while Japan's was above 110%. The main culprit was those new NM scripts that were in the last major update and that I copied over into my baby. There were two issues. The big one is that these started firing the instant the hexes in question were conquered, and not at some later date when the US could be reasonably expected to go on the offensive at roughly equal odds. [Tho there are some 1944 versions which are activated that year and basically double the penalties] The second was that I didn't adjust them down proportionately for the greater # of turns per year here (20 vs. 13).

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The result was that the US was below 70% by the time of the Big Battle, and it completely crippled the effectiveness of my carriers. On his most recent turn OCB was able to afford NOT to escort his strikes! While mine would do 1-2 points per strike, and suffer 5-8 damage in return, here he was doing 3-5 per strike, and only taking 1-4, UNESCORTED I will remind everyone.

Final loss tally:

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He is now +1 on fleet units +5 on lights. The only remaining edge I have is my economy will allow me to repair everything much quicker than he can (while his Chinese and Indian fronts start to collapse), but all the while those NM scripts will be ticking away and I'll be in the 40's by the time of the next battle, and my planes might as well be dropping cream pies on his ships for all the good that they'll do.

So we'll be giving it another go in about 2 weeks once I polish up the next version.

More final screenies:

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[Put 3 more Independences in there, for all the good that they'll do now]

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More details to come in my scenario thread.



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OldCrowBalthazor
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RE: War in the Pacific Elessar (Allies) vs. OldCrowBalthazor (Japan) [*NO* OCB]

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

Well I got permission to read this most excellent AAR. My video's will speak for themselves. We learned a lot in this deep beta MP match. There was a lot of data shared between Elessar and I (And still are) that is going to result in even a better version. Honestly, I have had some of the most fun with any of the SC series of games with this mod.

With that...read all of the build logs and changes Elessar is proposing and implementing in the War in the Pacific Release Thread.

Oh and there is this boys and girls: National Morale is everything!

Cheers,
Mike Balthazor (Old Crow)

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Elessar2
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RE: War in the Pacific Elessar (Allies) vs. OldCrowBalthazor (Japan) [*NO* OCB]

Post by Elessar2 »

NM is definitely something to not ignore, but tonight I discovered a much more worrisome issue. More to come once I do some more testing...
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