HB (Axis) vs YueJin (Allies) No YueJin for now

[AstroBlues]

Germany is doing good.

Ron

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

This is why I think the best solution to balance the game is to reduce rail repair in Russia from 3 hexes per turn to 2 hexes per turn.

I did not see you answer in this thread. Do you think this only change will be enough?
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5098818

I think reducing rail repair to 2 hexes per turn in Russia will balance the game; but this would need to be tested with several games.

But my fear now is that many players will copy YueJin's strategy in this game and disband the Russian air force and not build any US or UK air units. Although the Axis are doing well so far, this game is not over and I think YueJin's strategy is actually a very good one. Indeed I think I will copy it for my games as the Allies from now on. As the Axis I might even disband the Axis air forces and use the PPs to purchase more ground units. Even if Armour are nerfed, infantry are better than air units and cheaper too (both to build and for replacements). I might wait unit after the capture of Malta though. The problem is that air units are underpowered and not very effective.

[Flaviusx]

The strat *is* pretty good, but I don't see how YueJin doesn't get hustled back to the Volga or beyond by the end of the summer.

The big difference here is maybe he saves enough armor to keep Russia in the game when they go from zero to hero from Sept on. But he is already risking them getting trapped around Moscow.

I saw your complaints about LL coming through Persia, but...you've cut that line in this game. Murmansk is cut as well. Presumably you will get Arkangelsk by the end of the campaign season. No more LL for the Sovs.

YueJin has put the best possible lipstick on the pig I've yet seen. It is still, however, a pig.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The strat *is* pretty good, but I don't see how YueJin doesn't get hustled back to the Volga or beyond by the end of the summer.

The big difference here is maybe he saves enough armor to keep Russia in the game when they go from zero to hero from Sept on. But he is already risking them getting trapped around Moscow.

I saw your complaints about LL coming through Persia, but...you've cut that line in this game. Murmansk is cut as well. Presumably you will get Arkangelsk by the end of the campaign season. No more LL for the Sovs.

YueJin has put the best possible lipstick on the pig I've yet seen. It is still, however, a pig.

I think you over estimate the Axis (or underestimate the Allies) in this game. Yes I think I will win, but I am definitely getting worried. If I can isolate the Russians cutting rail lines to the East and capturing Moscow, it will be game over. But this is risky for me too. I am overextended in places and my Armour is getting exhausted. If I fail in this than I will be the one getting trapped. Also the Allies are doing very well in Africa. I am losing a corps or so per turn there and will soon have to abandon several units and save what I can as I flee back to Italy. I thought my 6 bomber units could counter his naval superiority, but I was wrong.

In any event, my point is that whatever is done to balance the game the Allies will be able to then unbalance the game in their favour by scrapping the Russian air force. IMHO all air units don't pull their weight, but this is especially true of the Russian air force. Not only does it start with only 35% experience, but in my experience it is very slow to improve on this. I have played many games where the Russian army has been able to increase its experience from 30% to 50% after 12 to 18 months. But even after 48 months (ie war's end) the Russian air force has only been at 45%. And to get it to this level it needs to actively engage the Germans and take horrendous casualties. I know your trick of setting Russian bombers to interdict the Baltic Trade Route to gain experience, but this should not be the only way to gain experience. No thank you, from now on I will definitely scrap the Russian air force.

You are correct that in this particular game I have now cut the Persian Route as well. But are you saying this should be left as it is, that you are you OK with the US/UK trade to Russia going through Persia?

[MagicMissile]

I agree about the Soviet airforce XP gain. It seems to grow very slowly. I have never seen it at 50. Probably because you can barely fly with it because your losses will be huge and you cannot afford to replace them. Only because it feels too gamey do I not disband the whole lot. But just bombing convoy lines or the Finns is a bit gamey too so maybe there is no difference [:)].

Airunits need to become cheaper or better thats for sure.

/MM

[Flaviusx]

Harry I don't really like how the game handles the economics of the Soviet Union at all, so...

If it was up to me I'd do several things: increasing Soviet production substantially. Maybe by as much as a third. And place limits on what each possible LL route can carry, and you'd have to use both the Murmansk and Persian convoy routes to max this out. If we leave eastern LL as is at 30, it would be something like 35 points each for the other two routes.

The game drastically overestimates Soviet dependency on LL and also makes it possible to ship more than really ought to be possible.

[MagicMissile]

Yes I agree with this too. LL was important but it was not 30-40% of USSR economy.

/MM

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Harry I don't really like how the game handles the economics of the Soviet Union at all, so...

If it was up to me I'd do several things: increasing Soviet production substantially. Maybe by as much as a third. And place limits on what each possible LL route can carry, and you'd have to use both the Murmansk and Persian convoy routes to max this out. If we leave eastern LL as is at 30, it would be something like 35 points each for the other two routes.

The game drastically overestimates Soviet dependency on LL and also makes it possible to ship more than really ought to be possible.

I agree to increasing Soviet production by 15% to 25% and reducing the maximum amount of PPs that one nation can "trade" to another from 25% to 10%. But only if the Soviets are required to spend a certain percentage of their PPs on air units. Otherwise the Soviets will still trash (or at least not replace/upgrade) their air units and instead covert all of that extra production into a massive army. Then the game will be unbalanced in favour of the Allies. The problem is I don't think the current game engine can be tweaked to force the Soviets to do this. So the only solution is to make air units worth the cost for the Soviets (and everyone else) to build, replace and upgrade them.

[michaelCLARADY]

ORIGINAL: MagicMissile

Yes I agree with this too. LL was important but it was not 30-40% of USSR economy.

/MM

https://archive.fo/20140609040225/www.s ... Lease.html

[Flaviusx]

Nice cherrypicking. But, no, doesn't change the argument. At the bird's eye view the relevant statistic is GDP. And LL did not account for anything like 30-40% of Soviet GDP in wartime. You can of course find this or that part of the Soviet economy where the allies disproportionately contributed to it. (As you have done here, hence "cherrypicking.")

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Nice cherrypicking. But, no, doesn't change the argument. At the bird's eye view the relevant statistic is GDP. And LL did not account for anything like 30-40% of Soviet GDP in wartime. You can of course find this or that part of the Soviet economy where the allies disproportionately contributed to it. (As you have done here, hence "cherrypicking.")

My comments had nothing to do with Lend lease per se. Even if Lend Lease were removed from the game entirely I would still argue that Nations (not just Russia) should be required to "allocate" their PP between naval, air and land. It wasn't easy to convert an aircraft factory to make T4s or a Shipyard to make Spitfires (not that anyone would). The game gives players the ability to effectively do this. You can even scrap your air force and use the resulting wood and aluminum to build tanks or rifles. This is not historically accurate. I can see why this was done for simplicity. But if you are going to do this than you have to balance the 3 arms so that there is no incentive for people to scrap air forces and not build, upgrade or replace air units. At the moment the balance is not there.

[Flaviusx]

That was in response to another post, Harry, not yours.

[Harrybanana]

JUNE 19, 1942

No turn from Yuejin in over a month, so our game timed out. I was posting one turn behind, so below are some final Screenshots.

AGN

[Harrybanana]

AGC. As you can see quite there was very large bulge developing.

[Harrybanana]

AGS. Stalingrad is captured, a couple Armies are destroyed and more are isolated.

[Harrybanana]

The situation was not quite as rosy in Algeria.