Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A)

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

And what's the purpose of bombing LI in Australia? Supply source for Oz are ports of Sydney, Melbourne and Perth.

His only purpose is gaining strategic victory points.

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

And what's the purpose of bombing LI in Australia? Supply source for Oz are ports of Sydney, Melbourne and Perth.

His only purpose is gaining strategic victory points.

This is indeed a primary purpose, though making Australia a liability as far as supply reduces its usefulness as a jumping-off point for the Allied offensive.

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Don't be fooled by intel you get out of a parallel universe. [:D]

Good advice, as always. Our game is in January, not April, but the opportunity cost of committing a second orphan regiment from a division that forms fully later in the game is small.

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

And what's the purpose of bombing LI in Australia? Supply source for Oz are ports of Sydney, Melbourne and Perth.

My original plan was to limit the ability of Australia to produce supplies, forcing the Allies to ship the supplies rather than feed units staged to OZ for an offensive from indigenous sources. Oz needs fuel for it HI, so it can be counter productive to destroy that, as tankers are the limiting factor for the enemy. I wanted to destroy the LI, but it has been very difficult to do, so I have largely switched targets to Resources. This is suboptimal. The Allies have plenty of xAKs to ship resources to for the Australian LI.

Also, you get strategic victory points for destroying industry in Australia and the U.S., just as the Allies do when they bomb the home islands of Japan. These are permanent VPs, not the temporary type gained while you hold a base.

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The other element is target choice - much easier to bomb manpower than specific factories.

Is there much manpower to target in OZ? I will look. My experience so far, with a small sample size and tons of confounding variables, is resources are easy to hit, as is HI.

[Wirraway_Ace]

27 Dec 42

I-23 sinks a loaded tanker on the SF - Pearl route.

Sub attack near San Francisco at 204,90

Japanese Ships
SS I-23

Allied Ships
TK Gulfland, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
TK Eidsvold
DD Rathburne

SS I-23 launches 6 torpedoes at TK Gulfland
I-23 diving deep ....
DD Rathburne attacking submerged sub ....
DD Rathburne cannot reach attack position over SS I-23
SS I-23 eludes ASW attack from DD Rathburne
DD Rathburne fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Rathburne fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Rathburne fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Rathburne fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

Now for a bit of overkill.

Sub attack near San Francisco at 204,90

Japanese Ships
SS I-23

Allied Ships
TK Gulfland, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Rathburne

SS I-23 launches 2 torpedoes at TK Gulfland
DD Rathburne fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Rathburne attacking submerged sub ....
DD Rathburne cannot establish contact with SS I-23
DD Rathburne attacking submerged sub ....
DD Rathburne cannot establish contact with SS I-23
SS I-23 eludes DD Rathburne by diving deep
DD Rathburne loses contact with SS I-23
DD Rathburne fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Rathburne fails to find sub,

I-122 sinks a xAK off Columbo.

Submarine attack near Colombo at 27,49

Japanese Ships
SS I-122

Allied Ships
xAK Subadar, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

xAK Subadar is sighted by SS I-122
SS I-122 attacking on the surface

<sinking sounds>

The enemy puts up LRCAP over his troops south of Sian. He uses everything but the kitchen sink. The 5th Air Division does a good job coordinating our strikes.

Morning Air attack on 5th War Area , at 84,43 , near Sian

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 29 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24

Allied aircraft
I-15-III x 16
H81-A3 x 39
Hawk 75M x 3
Buffalo I x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
I-15-III: 2 destroyed
H81-A3: 1 destroyed
Buffalo I: 1 destroyed

CAP engaged:
5th FG/17th FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 22000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
4th FG/22nd FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 23000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 23000.
Raid is overhead
5th FG/27th FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
3rd FG/28th FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
3rd FG/32nd FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
11th FG/43rd FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 6000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 6000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 1 minutes
11th FG/44th FS CAF with Hawk 75M (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
AVG/1st Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 14 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
AVG/2nd Sqn with H81-A3 (14 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 27000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 27000.
Raid is overhead
AVG/3rd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 11 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 28000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 28000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
No.453 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 7 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 29000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 29000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 5th War Area , at 84,43 , near Sian

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 31 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 24

Allied aircraft
I-15-III x 8
H81-A3 x 36
Hawk 75M x 3
Buffalo I x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
H81-A3: 2 destroyed

CAP engaged:
5th FG/17th FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 22000 , scrambling fighters to 29000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
4th FG/22nd FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 23000 , scrambling fighters to 30510.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
5th FG/27th FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 30510.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
3rd FG/28th FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters to 29510.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
3rd FG/32nd FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters to 35510.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 68 minutes
11th FG/44th FS CAF with Hawk 75M (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters to 31800.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
AVG/1st Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters to 28140.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 83 minutes
AVG/2nd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
12 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 27000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
AVG/3rd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 28000 , scrambling fighters to 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
No.453 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 29000 , scrambling fighters to 34510.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 5th War Area , at 84,43 , near Sian

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3

Allied aircraft
I-15-III x 7
H81-A3 x 29
Hawk 75M x 2
Buffalo I x 2

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

CAP engaged:
5th FG/17th FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 22000 , scrambling fighters to 28140.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes
4th FG/22nd FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 23000 , scrambling fighters to 33510.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
5th FG/27th FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 29000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
3rd FG/28th FS CAF with I-15-III (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters to 26140.
Raid is overhead
3rd FG/32nd FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters to 30510.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
11th FG/44th FS CAF with Hawk 75M (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters to 30140.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 66 minutes
AVG/1st Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
12 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters to 28140.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 84 minutes
AVG/2nd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 27000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 82 minutes
AVG/3rd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 28000 , scrambling fighters to 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 11 minutes
No.453 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 29000 , scrambling fighters to 30500.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes


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Morning Air attack on 92nd Chinese Corps, at 84,43 , near Sian

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 48
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 25
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 36

Allied aircraft
I-15-III x 6
H81-A3 x 27
Hawk 75M x 2
Buffalo I x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
H81-A3: 1 destroyed
Buffalo I: 1 destroyed

Allied ground losses:
24 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
24 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
20 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
5th FG/17th FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 22000 , scrambling fighters to 28140.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes
4th FG/22nd FS CAF with I-15-III (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 23000 , scrambling fighters to 33510.
Raid is overhead
5th FG/27th FS CAF with I-15-III (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 29000.
Raid is overhead
3rd FG/28th FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters to 26140.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
3rd FG/32nd FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters to 30000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
11th FG/44th FS CAF with Hawk 75M (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 2 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters to 30000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
AVG/1st Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 12 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters to 28000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 54 minutes
AVG/2nd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 27000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 53 minutes
AVG/3rd Sqn with H81-A3 (11 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 28000 , scrambling fighters to 22000.
Raid is overhead
No.453 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 29000 , scrambling fighters to 30500.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes

Also attacking 16th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 90th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 31st Group Army ...
Also attacking 92nd Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 38th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 92nd Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 90th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 92nd Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 16th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 90th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 31st Group Army ...
Also attacking 38th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 92nd Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 90th Chinese Corps ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 5th War Area , at 84,43 , near Sian

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 7

Allied aircraft
I-15-III x 2
H81-A3 x 18
Hawk 75M x 1
Buffalo I x 1

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
H81-A3: 2 destroyed

CAP engaged:
5th FG/27th FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 5000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
3rd FG/32nd FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters to 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
11th FG/44th FS CAF with Hawk 75M (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters to 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes
AVG/1st Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 12 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
AVG/2nd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 27000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
AVG/3rd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 28000 , scrambling fighters to 5000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 157 minutes
No.453 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 29000 , scrambling fighters to 5000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 38th Chinese Corps, at 84,43 , near Sian

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 13

Allied aircraft
I-15-III x 1
H81-A3 x 7
Hawk 75M x 1
Buffalo I x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied ground losses:
30 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
5th FG/27th FS CAF with I-15-III (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 5000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 50 minutes
11th FG/44th FS CAF with Hawk 75M (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters to 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 53 minutes
AVG/1st Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 83 minutes
AVG/2nd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 2 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 27000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 51 minutes
AVG/3rd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 28000 , scrambling fighters to 5000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
No.453 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 29000 , scrambling fighters to 5000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes

In the end, the enemy loses 20 fighters to combat and ops (intel report says 30, but this is likely overclaiming by our pilots). We lose 9 fighters and 5 Sallys, with three pilots (or crews) KIA and six WIA.

We also strike his forces east of Sian and Wenchow unopposed.

Our armor attacks east of Sian.

Ground combat at 87,41 (near Tsiaotso)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 4575 troops, 41 guns, 621 vehicles, Assault Value = 1192

Defending force 23980 troops, 210 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 314

Japanese adjusted assault: 201

Allied adjusted defense: 874

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 4

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 62 (3 destroyed, 59 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1656 casualties reported
Squads: 48 destroyed, 87 disabled
Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 31 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 16 (3 destroyed, 13 disabled)

Assaulting units:
9th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
37th/A Division
36th/B Division
36th/C Division
27th Electric Engineer Regiment
10th Tank Regiment
37th/B Division
23rd Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
110th/A Division
5th Tank Regiment
37th/C Division
1st Army
27th Fld AA Gun Co
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th AA Regiment
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
16th Field AA Machinecannon Company

Defending units:
1st Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
61st Chinese Corps
93rd Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps
7th Group Army
8th Group Army
43rd Chinese Corps

Armor and infantry attack south of Sian.

Ground combat at 84,43 (near Sian)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 30177 troops, 290 guns, 708 vehicles, Assault Value = 1265

Defending force 29976 troops, 151 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 704

Japanese adjusted assault: 841

Allied adjusted defense: 1078

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
733 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 60 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Vehicles lost 21 (2 destroyed, 19 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2338 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 201 disabled
Non Combat: 42 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled

Assaulting units:
13th Tank Regiment
6th Division
15th Tank Regiment
15th Division
8th Tank Regiment
12th Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
11th Army
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
38th Chinese Corps
90th Chinese Corps
16th Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
5th War Area
22nd Group Army
2nd Group Army
31st Group Army

[821Bobo]

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

My original plan was to limit the ability of Australia to produce supplies, forcing the Allies to ship the supplies rather than feed units staged to OZ for an offensive from indigenous sources. Oz needs fuel for it HI, so it can be counter productive to destroy that, as tankers are the limiting factor for the enemy. I wanted to destroy the LI, but it has been very difficult to do, so I have largely switched targets to Resources. This is suboptimal. The Allies have plenty of xAKs to ship resources to for the Australian LI.

Also, you get strategic victory points for destroying industry in Australia and the U.S., just as the Allies do when they bomb the home islands of Japan. These are permanent VPs, not the temporary type gained while you hold a base.

You are contradicting yourself in reasoning. You want to limit supply production to force them to ship in but in next sentence you admit they have plenty of cargoes. To feed Oz, with or without supply production destroyed, they will need to ship in a lot anyway.
In production screen you can turn HI production off if there is a need to conserve fuel.
You also get victory points for sinking ships, sinking a big supply/tanker convoy will earn you more than damaging some industry. Forget about destroying it without fire storms.
There is no strategic excuse except desperately wanting to get few more points in case you are heading for auto victory.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

My original plan was to limit the ability of Australia to produce supplies, forcing the Allies to ship the supplies rather than feed units staged to OZ for an offensive from indigenous sources. Oz needs fuel for it HI, so it can be counter productive to destroy that, as tankers are the limiting factor for the enemy. I wanted to destroy the LI, but it has been very difficult to do, so I have largely switched targets to Resources. This is suboptimal. The Allies have plenty of xAKs to ship resources to for the Australian LI.

Also, you get strategic victory points for destroying industry in Australia and the U.S., just as the Allies do when they bomb the home islands of Japan. These are permanent VPs, not the temporary type gained while you hold a base.

You are contradicting yourself in reasoning. You want to limit supply production to force them to ship in but in next sentence you admit they have plenty of cargoes. To feed Oz, with or without supply production destroyed, they will need to ship in a lot anyway.
In production screen you can turn HI production off if there is a need to conserve fuel.
You also get victory points for sinking ships, sinking a big supply/tanker convoy will earn you more than damaging some industry. Forget about destroying it without fire storms.
There is no strategic excuse except desperately wanting to get few more points in case you are heading for auto victory.

Actually, getting those permanent VPs for the industry as well as for the ships if you can sink any cargo vessels hauling either resources or supplies will also help stave of defeat and/or change the level of defeat.

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

My original plan was to limit the ability of Australia to produce supplies, forcing the Allies to ship the supplies rather than feed units staged to OZ for an offensive from indigenous sources. Oz needs fuel for it HI, so it can be counter productive to destroy that, as tankers are the limiting factor for the enemy. I wanted to destroy the LI, but it has been very difficult to do, so I have largely switched targets to Resources. This is suboptimal. The Allies have plenty of xAKs to ship resources to for the Australian LI.

Also, you get strategic victory points for destroying industry in Australia and the U.S., just as the Allies do when they bomb the home islands of Japan. These are permanent VPs, not the temporary type gained while you hold a base.

You are contradicting yourself in reasoning. You want to limit supply production to force them to ship in but in next sentence you admit they have plenty of cargoes. To feed Oz, with or without supply production destroyed, they will need to ship in a lot anyway.
In production screen you can turn HI production off if there is a need to conserve fuel.
You also get victory points for sinking ships, sinking a big supply/tanker convoy will earn you more than damaging some industry. Forget about destroying it without fire storms.
There is no strategic excuse except desperately wanting to get few more points in case you are heading for auto victory.

I don't disagree. I am not satisfied that this is a good strategy after making the attempt. VPs are still VPs though, and if he has to ship more stuff to Australia, that creates opportunities to sink ships too. The key issue is whether I could have made better use of the KB elsewhere.

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

My original plan was to limit the ability of Australia to produce supplies, forcing the Allies to ship the supplies rather than feed units staged to OZ for an offensive from indigenous sources. Oz needs fuel for it HI, so it can be counter productive to destroy that, as tankers are the limiting factor for the enemy. I wanted to destroy the LI, but it has been very difficult to do, so I have largely switched targets to Resources. This is suboptimal. The Allies have plenty of xAKs to ship resources to for the Australian LI.

Also, you get strategic victory points for destroying industry in Australia and the U.S., just as the Allies do when they bomb the home islands of Japan. These are permanent VPs, not the temporary type gained while you hold a base.

You are contradicting yourself in reasoning. You want to limit supply production to force them to ship in but in next sentence you admit they have plenty of cargoes. To feed Oz, with or without supply production destroyed, they will need to ship in a lot anyway.
In production screen you can turn HI production off if there is a need to conserve fuel.
You also get victory points for sinking ships, sinking a big supply/tanker convoy will earn you more than damaging some industry. Forget about destroying it without fire storms.
There is no strategic excuse except desperately wanting to get few more points in case you are heading for auto victory.

Actually, getting those permanent VPs for the industry as well as for the ships if you can sink any cargo vessels hauling either resources or supplies will also help stave of defeat and/or change the level of defeat.

Agreed. The destruction of his industry in Australia will probably create problems for him and future opportunities for Japan. I am still not sure it has been the best use of the KB, but I needed the CVs to cover our invasions in this theater, so they were able to serve a dual purpose.

[821Bobo]

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace
...

I did hope finally will someone teach DesertWolf a lesson. No offense, but so far it looks it ain't be this game.

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace
...

I did hope finally will someone teach DesertWolf a lesson. No offense, but so far it looks it ain't be this game.

Hah, no offense taken. He is very skillful. There are few if any easy victories against him. He uses terrain well, makes excellent use of navsearch and employs mass. Normally I would try to draw his carriers into an early action, but I have yet to be able to create an opportunity where he could be surprised.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

And what's the purpose of bombing LI in Australia? Supply source for Oz are ports of Sydney, Melbourne and Perth.

His only purpose is gaining strategic victory points.

This is indeed a primary purpose, though making Australia a liability as far as supply reduces its usefulness as a jumping-off point for the Allied offensive.

If Australia is going to be used as a springboard for offensives then there will be a couple of million tons of supply there, easily brought from Cape Town and the US West Coast. I would rather bomb the few refineries in Australia so they wouldn't produce fuel as fuel is the limiting factor in Australia, always a big one for me even if all tankers on the map haul it to OZ. And if your enemy repairs the refineries, using supply, he used way more supply than the damaged LI would be able to produce.

Literally all Allied players turn off HI in Australia as not to burn fuel.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace
...

I did hope finally will someone teach DesertWolf a lesson. No offense, but so far it looks it ain't be this game.

Hah, no offense taken. He is very skillful. There are few if any easy victories against him. He uses terrain well, makes excellent use of navsearch and employs mass. Normally I would try to draw his carriers into an early action, but I have yet to be able to create an opportunity where he could be surprised.

Wait until mid 42 and it could get tricky. By then he will have 600+ carrier based ac (as soon as Wasp arrives and without the use of CVL Hermes) and all will be 70/70 skill, plus F4F-4 and all SBD-3 and Avengers. No matter how KB would look like, it usually doesn't survive an alpha strike that isn't completely f*cked up. What you don't want to do is fight the enemy piecemeal with your carriers, either side. If he keeps the British carriers separated it would mean 550 USN ac.

[821Bobo]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

If Australia is going to be used as a springboard for offensives then there will be a couple of million tons of supply there, easily brought from Cape Town and the US West Coast. I would rather bomb the few refineries in Australia so they wouldn't produce fuel as fuel is the limiting factor in Australia, always a big one for me even if all tankers on the map haul it to OZ. And if your enemy repairs the refineries, using supply, he used way more supply than the damaged LI would be able to produce.

Literally all Allied players turn off HI in Australia as not to burn fuel.

Australia is lacking oil for refineries, unless Allied player is shipping some they won't produce anyway. And because you have literally infinite fuel in WC and Aden why wasting tankers on shipping oil if they can ship fuel.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

ORIGINAL: castor troy

If Australia is going to be used as a springboard for offensives then there will be a couple of million tons of supply there, easily brought from Cape Town and the US West Coast. I would rather bomb the few refineries in Australia so they wouldn't produce fuel as fuel is the limiting factor in Australia, always a big one for me even if all tankers on the map haul it to OZ. And if your enemy repairs the refineries, using supply, he used way more supply than the damaged LI would be able to produce.

Literally all Allied players turn off HI in Australia as not to burn fuel.

Australia is lacking oil for refineries, unless Allied player is shipping some they won't produce anyway. And because you have literally infinite fuel in WC and Aden why wasting tankers on shipping oil if they can ship fuel.

Australia has oil, just not 100% for the refineries. And I never proposed shipping in oil even though I had more than a couple of games where I brought as much oil from Java, Babo, Bolea to Australia in the first months with the tankers fleeing form there that Australia's refineries were swimming in excess oil.

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Wait until mid 42 and it could get tricky. By then he will have 600+ carrier based ac (as soon as Wasp arrives and without the use of CVL Hermes) and all will be 70/70 skill, plus F4F-4 and all SBD-3 and Avengers. No matter how KB would look like, it usually doesn't survive an alpha strike that isn't completely f*cked up. What you don't want to do is fight the enemy piecemeal with your carriers, either side. If he keeps the British carriers separated it would mean 550 USN ac.

Thanks, and I completely agree. There may be an opportunity coming up in the middle of February for a fight on favorable terms off Burma/India. If not, I will retain the KB as a fleet-in-being as long as I am able. The issue will soon become how to protect the oil on Sumatra and Java from strikes by his CVs.

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Literally all Allied players turn off HI in Australia as not to burn fuel.

Makes sense. I have only played the Allies briefly, and that was a decade ago.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Wait until mid 42 and it could get tricky. By then he will have 600+ carrier based ac (as soon as Wasp arrives and without the use of CVL Hermes) and all will be 70/70 skill, plus F4F-4 and all SBD-3 and Avengers. No matter how KB would look like, it usually doesn't survive an alpha strike that isn't completely f*cked up. What you don't want to do is fight the enemy piecemeal with your carriers, either side. If he keeps the British carriers separated it would mean 550 USN ac.

Thanks, and I completely agree. There may be an opportunity coming up in the middle of February for a fight on favorable terms off Burma/India. If not, I will retain the KB as a fleet-in-being as long as I am able. The issue will soon become how to protect the oil on Sumatra and Java from strikes by his CVs.

I would suggest that if you have not done so, those two Islands in the IO near the DEI would be very useful if captured, built up, and provided with Long Range naval search. Parts of Northern and Western Australia would also be useful as well.

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

ORIGINAL: castor troy

If Australia is going to be used as a springboard for offensives then there will be a couple of million tons of supply there, easily brought from Cape Town and the US West Coast. I would rather bomb the few refineries in Australia so they wouldn't produce fuel as fuel is the limiting factor in Australia, always a big one for me even if all tankers on the map haul it to OZ. And if your enemy repairs the refineries, using supply, he used way more supply than the damaged LI would be able to produce.

Literally all Allied players turn off HI in Australia as not to burn fuel.

Australia is lacking oil for refineries, unless Allied player is shipping some they won't produce anyway. And because you have literally infinite fuel in WC and Aden why wasting tankers on shipping oil if they can ship fuel.

Australia has oil, just not 100% for the refineries. And I never proposed shipping in oil even though I had more than a couple of games where I brought as much oil from Java, Babo, Bolea to Australia in the first months with the tankers fleeing form there that Australia's refineries were swimming in excess oil.

I think in the end, tankers are the only potential constraint to the pace of Allied operations. I know he is shipping fuel to Pearl at the moment, and will continue to mass my submarines along those convoy routes. He is almost certainly shipping fuel to Perth or one of the other Australian ports on the southwest coast. I will have a more submarines there in a few weeks. Japan starts off with all the long-legged boats in the Pacific. Once Surabaya falls, which will be soon, I can slip the KB into the Indian Ocean undetected for a raid, though he will likely have pickets. A Dutch CL squadron is operating west of Perth, so AMC raiders are not an option. I lost two a few weeks ago.