Making the last Beta Official

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi everyone,

We're considering doing one last update for WITP:AE and a re-master, rather than leaving it with a public beta update and a host of mods. We don't have the time or development resources to do a lot here, so I'm looking for your feedback just on the following:

1. In the last public beta update, what if any bugs exist that you find game-breaking or cause you to avoid that beta update?

Good idea but I suspect you've opened a can of worms. Personnally I've not got a problem with the latest Beta and could not now tell you the differences with the official. I've learned to live with/work round bugs in the Beta.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
2. What mods outside the code are so widely used within the community that they could be considered "standard" and yet also would not make the learning curve for a new player much harder?

The only outside code I use is Tracker. Don't see the point in the others except maybe SeaBee and even that is not needed if you know how to edit the start up. In truth it should be part of the ini file anyway but it's too late for that to happen.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
3. Separately, what mods are considered "standard" but advanced enough that we can't put them in the re-master but should add them to the Members Club to make them easier to find?

There are so many. I maninly play agaisnt the AI so more of the better ones sould be included with a decent description on the whys and wherefores would be good.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
4. Given modern operating systems and 4k screens, what is the standard setup as far as game settings, command line switches and such that you all have found to work best on Windows 10/11 and high resolution displays which we could include in our default launcher?

Hae read some of the posts here re 4K machines etc. I don't have one so I'll post my swithes here. -pxf1900 -pyf1000 -cpu4 -SingleCpuOrders -dd_sw -altFont -multiaudio -deepColor -skipVideo -archive -w. Windows and slightly smaller than the 1920 x 1080. Odd sizes but they work, at least they do now after some Windows update. Anything small and I can't read it on my 24" screen

The one thing you have not mentioned is the Manual??? It's poor and would help newby 1000% if updated.

[paradigmblue]

1. In addition to the other bugs mentioned in GetAssita's thread, there is the pilot shortage bug. Once too many pilots are lost on both sides, the game stops generating pilots, and no more become available even though replacements should still be entering the pool each month. From what I understand there is a hard cap on the number of pilots the game tracks, and once that number is exceeded, the game can't generate more. This number is not adjustable in the editor, so it would have to be fixed by a patch. While this happens most often in modded games that add more aircraft, it also rears its head in stock games in 1945 and 1946 if there has been a lot of pilot attrition.

2. The extended map is commonly used, often with a map mod. Ideally, the game would have both the original style and an updated one - I'm partial to chemkid's maps myself.

The excellent Da Babes mod (which introduced the extended map, I believe) serves as the basis of many other mods out there, and to many Da Babes is the definitive version of the game.

3. I'd love to see some of the more polished mods available in the Member's Club as easy installs. Bottlenecks in the Pacific, John the 3rd's Reluctant Admiral / Between the Storms lines of mods, and AndyMac's various enhanced difficulty scenarios come to mind.

4. The folks that work on Sea Bee are going to have the best understanding of these switches. In my experience though, setting the actual resolution using -px and -py and the -deepcolor switch are a must for using a modern setup.

[OnWargaming]

Good news indeed!

After so many years the game is still getting attention by its publisher, thank you Erik!

I would like to say that if limited resources/time is available, a comprensive manual would be the best/useful task to do [:)]

[paradigmblue]

Also, while it never got much attention in these forums, Baloogan's Operation Glacier visualizer from 2015 was a huge step in modernizing the way information in WitP was presented and would be a fantastic addition to a remaster.

https://github.com/Baloogan/OperationGlacier

Sadly, it was dropped by the mod developer (who is best known for their work on CMO/CMANO), so most never saw it in action.

While I can't find any screenshots of the working mod, the way it operated was to create an overlay of events over the game map. Ship and plane sightings, air missions, intel - any event from the ops report or combat report was visible on the map. No more searching for the correct hex coordinates, you could see the sighting on the map, and then clicking on the icon for it would show you the actual report, whether that be a combat report, intel, or sighting. Each type of report was filterable, so you can change which reports you wanted to be displayed on the map.

In any case, if there is going to be a re-master, this vizualization tool would be a game changer in updating the game for a modern audience.

[Yaab]

Keep it simple

1.Updated manual
2.Updated scenarios by AndyMac

Mods and maps are individual preferences.

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

This may be more of a technical thing, but how about for the regular scenarios that have multiple AI files, something about how to move and save the files, swapping them back and forth, so when a player starts a game they can choose which one that the AI will use? There are quite a few of them and then each run through can be different.

The game picks the scripts at random at game start....GP

[HansBolter]

DaBabes LCU countermix is far an away superior to stock.

As far as accommodating 4k monitors goes please don't implement the WITE2 model.

I have to set resolution to 1650x1080 to make icons and text legible on my 32" 4k monitor.

Please don't remaster the game engine.

[littleike]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Keep it simple

1.Updated manual
2.Updated scenarios by AndyMac

Mods and maps are individual preferences.

Agree to keep things simple.
Proceed in two steps:


1) Reorganize the forum putting stickied best info about tools and monographic threads.

Include beta in the official.

Reorganize manual:
Update the description of screens switches and table modified.
Rearrange it trying to collect everything related to naval, air and Bases arguments in the same place splitting logistic parts related, so one could find every useful information in the same place. I have always found very tyring search informations not collected by naval, air and bases arrangement.
Leave logistic section for production and general informations.


2) Then take a breath and think on how to give this game a new amplitude without rewriting code.

Create a WitpAe extended or deluxe or anniversary or legendary (mass effect docet) edition!! This forum is near to one million posts so time could be right for something great to celebrate!!

With the help of the expert forumites filter and choice the best Maps, images from enthusiasts, AI scripts, Campaigns, mods and tools if not developed with platforms that give troubles to be supported. Make everything packaged in an easy way to install and configure so the new and the expert player can find what they want and then sell to a decent amount.

This could give you the time necessary to develop a well made product and have the right return for the time spent, (because at my 74 years of age i have not yet seen a car to clock up kilometers without fuel or any other form of energy).

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi everyone,

We're considering doing one last update for WITP:AE and a re-master, rather than leaving it with a public beta update and a host of mods. We don't have the time or development resources to do a lot here, so I'm looking for your feedback just on the following:

1. In the last public beta update, what if any bugs exist that you find game-breaking or cause you to avoid that beta update?

2. What mods outside the code are so widely used within the community that they could be considered "standard" and yet also would not make the learning curve for a new player much harder?

3. Separately, what mods are considered "standard" but advanced enough that we can't put them in the re-master but should add them to the Members Club to make them easier to find?

4. Given modern operating systems and 4k screens, what is the standard setup as far as game settings, command line switches and such that you all have found to work best on Windows 10/11 and high resolution displays which we could include in our default launcher?

Thank you for your time and feedback on this. I'll be checking back over the next week or two and we'll be deciding by the end of the year what to do.

Regards,

- Erik

1. I can't think of any game-breaking bugs, and I think the only remaining bugs are rather minor. I ran across one a few years ago, I think, but if so it had to do with port size 0 and naval support and just isn't applicable in hardly any cases... I think that was all, since at some point Michael fixed the multi-/chain-reaction of CV TFs.


2. A few things here:

i. Additional scenario options, namely the Andy Mac database updates to the stock scenarios

ii. Maps with additional bases on them (I think the Andy Mac scenarios added some; a lot in CBI and some in the larger island areas)


3. Stacking limits map options

4. Here's mine.

-wd -pxf1600 -pyf900 -dd_sw -archive -skipVideo -deepColor -cpu2 -altFont

1600x900 on a 4K display is fine. I also did 1600x900 on a 1080p display.

There are some that seem to be required with modern hardware for performance (or even just getting the game to run) reasons:

-dd_sw
-cpu2 (or -cpu#)
-altFont

-deepColor may be optional depending on graphics card. But as far as I can tell, the above 3 are basically required if you are running a Windows 8+ machine with modern CPUs and GPUs.

[Lokasenna]

Oh yeah, one thing in the game that is relative garbage:

Press 'D' for database. It's functionally useless in-game. It might be able to be improved with some minor work adding additional navigation buttons and information on screen that even explains what you're looking at.

Tracker is far superior for looking at database items.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Kull

While I applaud the effort, it's worth noting that the timing couldn't be worse. Alfred is the one person who had a near-comprehensive understanding of this issue....and now he's gone. Absent his input, the "final update" will inevitably be incomplete.

I'm glad someone else said this before me, and it can't be stressed enough. The rest of us collectively can scrape a superficial understanding of what needs addressed. Alfred's knowledge in this runs deep.

I'll bite.

Alfred's knowledge, while vast, also came with assertions that things which were clearly not working as intended or as documented were actually, to his mind and agenda, working as intended (the aforementioned CV reaction bug being one of those cases). He isn't infallible.

Same with some of the other small bugs mentioned here, like those in GA's thread or Kull's example.

[Lokasenna]

A couple of exploits, if it's possible to fix them (and desirable - unsure if that's the case as they aren't gamebreaking):

-Land units that can't move by a certain mode of strategic transport (namely: they can't move by Grey Road on their own) can be set to follow other units via that road. E.g., you can't have a USN or Chinese unit strategic move over a Grey Road on its own, but if you have a British or US Army unit in the hex that you set to strategic move by that Grey Road first then you can use "Set all to follow" and the USN or Chinese unit(s) will use strategic move over that Grey Road. You can even halt the British/USA unit or separate the units from each other and the "can't use Grey Road" units will continue in this mode/movement as long as they do not get interrupted.

-You can transfer restricted air units to carriers in some cases if the CV is disbanded in port. This then makes the air unit Independent unrestricted. Not sure how big of a deal this is, really, given the other factors at play that would limit their use (it mainly applies to some Japanese units).

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Kull

While I applaud the effort, it's worth noting that the timing couldn't be worse. Alfred is the one person who had a near-comprehensive understanding of this issue....and now he's gone. Absent his input, the "final update" will inevitably be incomplete.

I'm glad someone else said this before me, and it can't be stressed enough. The rest of us collectively can scrape a superficial understanding of what needs addressed. Alfred's knowledge in this runs deep.

I'll bite.

Alfred's knowledge, while vast, also came with assertions that things which were clearly not working as intended or as documented were actually, to his mind and agenda, working as intended (the aforementioned CV reaction bug being one of those cases). He isn't infallible.

Same with some of the other small bugs mentioned here, like those in GA's thread or Kull's example.

How you dare to say this? Guess that could be seen as blasphemy. It really speaks for Matrix and especially Erik to ask the community about any (gamebreaking) bugs before doing one final offical patch release because according to the before mentioned guy everything in the game would be working as intended and nobody but him would understand it correctly, most likely not even the developers.

Frankly, there hasn't been a gamebreaking bug in this game for over a decade IIRC and it's the best supported game I've ever bought. Applause to Matrix games!

The forum software still seems to be going back to the 90s though. [;)]

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Kull

While I applaud the effort, it's worth noting that the timing couldn't be worse. Alfred is the one person who had a near-comprehensive understanding of this issue....and now he's gone. Absent his input, the "final update" will inevitably be incomplete.

I'm glad someone else said this before me, and it can't be stressed enough. The rest of us collectively can scrape a superficial understanding of what needs addressed. Alfred's knowledge in this runs deep.

I'll bite.

Alfred's knowledge, while vast, also came with assertions that things which were clearly not working as intended or as documented were actually, to his mind and agenda, working as intended (the aforementioned CV reaction bug being one of those cases). He isn't infallible.

Same with some of the other small bugs mentioned here, like those in GA's thread or Kull's example.

Agree, definitely not an infallible individual, but certainly the best resource when it came to what the underlying design intention of the developers was. See, for example, the Yamato/AKE issue.

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Frankly, there hasn't been a gamebreaking bug in this game for over a decade IIRC and it's the best supported game I've ever bought. Applause to Matrix games!

You may want to let however writes your AAR's know this then.

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: mind_messing



I'm glad someone else said this before me, and it can't be stressed enough. The rest of us collectively can scrape a superficial understanding of what needs addressed. Alfred's knowledge in this runs deep.

I'll bite.

Alfred's knowledge, while vast, also came with assertions that things which were clearly not working as intended or as documented were actually, to his mind and agenda, working as intended (the aforementioned CV reaction bug being one of those cases). He isn't infallible.

Same with some of the other small bugs mentioned here, like those in GA's thread or Kull's example.

How you dare to say this? Guess that could be seen as blasphemy. It really speaks for Matrix and especially Erik to ask the community about any (gamebreaking) bugs before doing one final offical patch release because according to the before mentioned guy everything in the game would be working as intended and nobody but him would understand it correctly, most likely not even the developers.

Frankly, there hasn't been a gamebreaking bug in this game for over a decade IIRC and it's the best supported game I've ever bought. Applause to Matrix games!

The forum software still seems to be going back to the 90s though. [;)]

I remember Alfred identifying at least one aspect of ?? the Moose's ?? underway replenishment test that indicated a bug. That was within the last 5 or 6 years, before the final patches. He also showed why many excited assertions of bugs were indeed the product of misunderstandings about how the game exe functioned.

He's not here anymore, and the reason why posters continue sledging him in his absence is elusive.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: btd64

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

This may be more of a technical thing, but how about for the regular scenarios that have multiple AI files, something about how to move and save the files, swapping them back and forth, so when a player starts a game they can choose which one that the AI will use? There are quite a few of them and then each run through can be different.

The game picks the scripts at random at game start....GP

I understand this but if I could remember where to look, I could move all but one and then the one that was left would be picked. I could then switch the AI files and try the next one and so on. That way, the game against the AI would be different each time, at least initially.

[Ian R]

I suspect you will find the answer in Andymac's topic where he provides the downloads.

To expand that a little, I think he identifies all the variation files that need to be removed to get the historical type game. That may be reverse engineer-able, but I would ask him what you need to keep.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I suspect you will find the answer in Andymac's topic where he provides the downloads.

To expand that a little, I think he identifies all the variation files that need to be removed to get the historical type game. That may be reverse engineer-able, but I would ask him what you need to keep.

If I can remember where to look for the information . . .

I have another project that I am working on plus I plan on buying a couple more games. Oh the terrible life when a person does not work . . .

[pz501]

This is going to sound incredibly stupid, but who is Alfred? Is there any particular thread where I can read posts from him?

Everyone says he has the most knowledge when it comes to the workings of the game.

I've been away from WITP-AE for a long while, and I'm trying to catch up, so I'll appreciate any help.

Also, some posts say Alfred is "gone". Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Again my apology for sounding uneducated, and I hope you'll forgive my asking about something that appears to be common community knowledge.

[ny59giants]

One minor bug I've encountered when playing as Japan is the capture of bases with industry that are empty of enemy LCUs. Whether they are captured by an auto flip at beginning of the turn or deliberate assault, the industry at the base is almost totally destroyed. It has been the most noticeable in the greater Calcutta area.