A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG

[Stamb]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

T58 - Panzer Refit...

A full PzCorp was brought back to Smolensk for refitting. They're sitting there since 2 turns and are still short-cut in ToE.
Also the CP difference of 70 Panzers seem 1-2 CV and to me that is ... well AFV does not seem that impactful. That may help understand why there is perception that Motorized divisions are the true punch.

Also on the map there are Guard Rifle Corps having a CV that is 23. Given, they may have SU attached and / or values are eskew due to average detection level (Just hugging them with ground units since start of the turn).

Also - once the CCP are spent these 80-90% TOE panzer divisions will look quite abysmal in terms of might. Like 10-12 IF full rested, almost full TOE, and 0 CCP? Definitely underwhelming, I feel.

To refit these Panzer Divisions, an amount of freight stocked in Smolensk was used. I do keep a few of these depots behind the lines BUT I discovered once made, you best not undo it, or the Freight will scatter in all the wrong ways that you do not want - because the management is stupid. I had Vitbesk earlier at 4, lowered it at 1 to have it push Freight ... onward supposedly? No way. There, send freight to locations like Rostov or so - not further east toward Moscow sector which is what makes sense. So there is Freight pratically going westward first til it can go in other directions.

That are good points. I would be very happy to exchange all of the panzers to a motorized divisions.
In some topic somebody mentioned that it is better not to connect north-center or center-south rails lines. In general this supply system is pretty... random? You never know what gonna happen next turn

[AlbertN]

T58 - New Patch, Round 2

I decided for experimenting sake to ram again on the same hex with fresh forces, in truth allocated for other targets (but other targets have 70+ CV of defensive value so they look prohibitive now even if I can throw in 90+ CV; since a 35ish CV failed to dislodge a 20 CV).

The hex defended by 20 Russian CV was taken by throwing at it roughly 35 + 35 CV of Germans in two attacks.

Now I can easily related the 3 mighty rested and full CCP Panzer divisions of above getting into combat somewhere, pratically gaining 1 not too defended hex and being spent. Not the most promising perspective.

Here the results of the subsequent push. There has been a 3rd attack on a division that retreated but not going to plaster it there, since that unit got fatigued the first attack, retreated the 2nd and the 3rd was just routing it.

[AlbertN]

@Stamb - No you want to connect it because you may use the moving up and down at times and in general the more rail the better it is.

BUT if you do not connect it, imagine that the system is well able to see a depot with X freight stocked up (Let's say Vitbesk), and that depot goes down to 1 priority. The system will sent it to Rostov or so and IF it cannot find a shortcut I suspect it will send the freight backward to Poland or so and then toward Rostov.

I've a line that goes down to Gomel / Chernigov and further south to Rostov so I assume it took that one. But it would simply have been simpler if from Vitbesk the Freight stocked there was to be called forth toward Vyazma and the like! And I cannot know why it was not the case.

In general I do not want to micromanage more depots and I'd like more automatization (I suggested switches or so that can help automations, ie, assigning a depot to have TurnA to be 4 priority, and TurnB to be 1 Priority, and that the depot can cycle through patterns. So one turn it stocks and one turn release, or to have an A A B pattern, stock 2 turns, release 3rd turn).

[AlbertN]

T58 - When the Luftwaffe 'works'

This was a case where the Axis had overwhelming odds pretty much. A barely entrenched single division (That had 1-5 shown on map so an extremely brittle formation).

What astonishes me is the fact that the German bombers here did something actually (I admit I forgot the Ground Support button on... I was not thinking the airforce was needed here...)

Russian artilleries here have been highly inefficient and low in quantity except for their mortars and Germans were pretty shallow but as germans had 645 tubes present this was just a very one sided affair.

Yes this was a deliberate attack for anyone that wonders. It is a way to keep morale and experience up of some units.

[AlbertN]

T58 - Numbers around Moscow

It was shown earlier how hard was to take a 20 CV defending emplacement. Soviet emplacement at least.

Now this is the situation around Moscow. German troops that have not attacked are in decent shape. The ones that attacked have ... 3-4 CV pretty much. A stack of 3 divisions (yes divisions, not regiments) occupy the hex contested (which has 6 Delay on it, due to the 2 deliberate attacks) from the 3rd Panzer.

To dislodge Soviets from an X strong position will be impossible at this stage.

Another hex was gained in another sector. That was with the previous patch though. And even with that there are still impressive numbers on Soviet end.

I feel that the Moscow offensive is at a manifest dead end, no matter if I had an extra PanzerArmy or Army in general. The whole perimeter at the south of Moscow will be useless as soon as the minor river freezes too.

I should redirect the 2nd Panzer somewhere else, but it's almost August and to leave just infanteries at the side with all the Cavalry Guard corps that were sitting there...

Supposedly I am doing good - to extents due to the OOB. If I take Leningrad but have not taken Stalingrad I am pretty much on the 'historical' spot of meaningful gains. It is not 'few hexes' closer or further away from Moscow that cuts the difference - it is 'Have you taken the VP and Industrial city or not'. Sure I may have gained some more villages and towns and denied small bits of Manpower to the Russians.

With utmost chances the PzKorp resting in Smolensk will be directed elsewhere though. Where I've still to decide but my targets are:

A) Tambov - seemingly easy to reach, potentially grabbable. Also a rather not too significant gain, only a few Armaments factories there.

B) Stalingrad - am I still in time to operate there with adequate reinforcements? I do not know.

C) Leningrad assistance - Ideally a pointe toward Rybinsk Reservoir would hinder further the logistics of the Soviets operating around Leningrad if I can cut that railroad.

D) Caucasus? - This is the most remote of my ideas right now. I'd not disdain to secure Maikop and maybe hold it but I feel it's a velleity. Even before the latest patch the Soviets are growing on a turn by turn basis even if not by much. I suspect now that will have a drastic increase.

[Beethoven1]

ORIGINAL: loki100

you are spreading your naval patrol too widely - all you need is full control (2+ interdiction) of the hex due east of Osinovets

What about the hex to the north-east of Osinovets? Don't you have to have that one too? That borders the sea, supply should be able to go through there too. If it doesn't, that is not clear at all in the UI and should be made visibly clear in some way. Do ports only "connect" to a single water hex, even if they border multiple water hexes???

[AlbertN]

T58 - Further 'Artillery' study on Latest Patch

I am not skilled enough to claim numbers are too high or too low.
But I can compare numbers between Germans and Russians.

This is another combat that I'd consider onesided. A not that strong Russian division in clear terrain pounced on by a German division and the Romanian Guards (Which admittedly are assigned to a Romanian leader but I may change that in time).

I do not know of the quality of the Russian leader, but I know Walter Weiss having a hefty 8 Infantry and 7 Initiative and 8 Morale value [&o].

For reasons eluding my mind at 45mm AT of the Soviets is a real killer (Seemingly a pattern as it was the same in the previous fights around Moscow). These guns fire explosive and not armour piercing stuff?

Russian Mortars at same caliber seem 5 times more deadly than Germans.

Now if I was just to look at the final result, it may seem okay, 5:1 for men perished, and 4:1 for guns. But I feel the numbers indicate a huge swing favoring Russians in general, considering it was open ground, the division had no meaningful artillery backing it except its own internal one, etcetera.

[Beethoven1]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

@Loki - I actually did precisely that with 1 KG per hex in 2 different Naval Patrol ADs. That with an Air Sup AD before it (But I discovered that is not good if the bombers are intercepted before to get in the shadow of the fighters!)

But I believe the Interdiction splashes into other hexes.

You should be able to get up to level 5 or 6 or so interdiction, and if you get that high there is no real way for the Soviets to counter it, that I have been able to find anyway. If you are not getting that high, then you don't have enough planes, so move more there and be sure that missions get set to fly with more planes rather than fewer. The Soviets will run out of planes before you do, so just suicide the whole Luftwaffe over Lake Ladoga.

[AlbertN]

T59 - Soviet Summer Offensive nr.1

Worrysome news, the Soviets are bold enough to launch summer offensive - here and elsewhere (Next screenshot to come).

Worst news is that their Guard formations, after the combat that took place (Thus with damaged units, fatigue and CCP loss) are strong 18-19. Yes, that's the visual value of the 1st and 2nd Guard Infantry Corps.

Now if I think a fully rested, 90% TOE, 100 CCP Panzer division is worth 22 (As seen from previous turn of refitting ones in Smolensk)... the math is easy. And Russians are getting plenty of corps across the board, Guards and non Guards.

[AlbertN]

T59 - Other Soviet Offensive

Here I've grown bold, I feel - and got punished for. I sinned of gluttony, attacked some weak Soviet divisions that were pickets (shown one in previous turn) and then got counterattacked fiercely now!

We can see also the first Guard Tank Army.

[AlbertN]

T59 - Caucasus Situation

An amount of Mountain Divisions manifested themselves to block my supposed advance.
Frankly there is no grand desire to move further south - mostly because my forces are otherwise b usy and pinned.

Here I can make no secret that it will be a localized success to reach the sea, and eventually mop up the historical conquered cities of Krasnodar and Novosibirsk.

Which may be already an overstretch considering what is operating in the region and the new threats of the Soviet forces that are growing bold and bolder!

[AlbertN]

T59 - Panzer Pools

I noticed in many AARs folks seem to have excess of Panzers, which seemed odd to me.

I realized there is the trick and that the Pools are rather treacherous in their show.
There are 2 different pools, ACTIVE and TRANSIT.

TRANSIT is like ... Truck Repair Pool or something like that. I am not sure to have understood well what Transit Pool is, BUT the manual says that each turn 25% of the stuff in there goes into the ACTIVE Pool, and less for AFVs in the Transit Pool. So I assume in truth 'Transit' is more like 'Damage' pool!

Please if anyone knows better, enlighten me.

What one has truly at hand is the ACTIVE pool.

Players can toggle their pools at the bottom of the screen with the various options - but in truth Panzer reserves are minimal at this stage and aplenty of divisions are requiring more tanks (as it is normal).

The repair rate seems a bit low at least for the Germans. I know they had amany different panzer types and complicated things a lot. But if one thinks pratically the whole Desert Campaign was made by recycling captured veichles and repairing for the most what they had...

Instead since the Air War is bogus, there is no shortage of airplanes sitting in the Active Pool.
I've amazingly over 3000 Fighters / Fighter-Bombers sitting in the pool. And that is 'normal' as long as the Luftwaffe is a joke and there is no real need to use it, and if there is any worth in bombing the VVS dominates the '41 advances because the LW cannot provide air cover anyhow due to overly limited logistics and ... a lot of other factors that I assume are known.

The amount of Tactical and Level bombers go over the 4500 units in the Pool.

Figures that look even more absurd the very moment I check how many pilots I've in reserve. 2250ish.

So supposedly I've a surplus of over 5000 planes for which I'd not have pilots - though a pilot could fly in more than one airplane too. On a relevant note this does not account for pilots not trained due to ... a 'max roof' of trained pilots one can have AND neither for scrapped equipment.
I feel the Russian end of the specter is similar - which instead worries me because the IL2 are flying death stars last I remember that make any flying coffee machine the Luftwaffe puts in the sky with the label of 'something bomber' pale in comparison!

[AlbertN]

T59 - Luftwaffe Uselessness forwarded

The Luftwaffe may be vital to sever Leningrad out but it seems that's all it's good for. Hinder naval traffic.

A quick look at the Anti-Air assets reveals that the Soviets in general have way more readyness to combat enemy bombing than the opposite. You average mundane German ID has 1 Anti-Air factor.

Your average Soviet Corps has 5 (or maybe MSAG have equipped them with AA battallions).

The problem that accrues that is that ... Germany has 'corps only' LW units as well that cannot really get attached to units on need, barring a very few of them.

Anyhow point is that even in '42 it just seems the Luftwaffe has little to no reason to be used for its 'troops bombing' capability. You'd lose your planes, your pilots, achieve nothing except a grand list of binary numbers where the most of them are 0s with the occasional 1 (besides disrupting a few).

Now with the 'surplus' one has, it should be okay to use them IF ONLY they'd not eat supplies and the logistics are strained as they're already.

[loki100]

I'm sure your comments on the LW and the air war match your experience - but it doesn't match mine. In my game I still have the VVS firmly under control and can generate devastating levels of GS when its needed.

yes you are right above the transit pool-active pool. Stuff goes into the transit pool if just built, if repaired (and has been removed from the host unit - this is explained in the manual) or if the old element has been disbanded

there are complications about its arrival in the unit - and that is why refit/big depot or refit/reserve are the best tools. Check 26.1 of the manual for some of this

[AlbertN]

T59 - Leningrad Air Battle!

I may have done it, so I assume at least. The '2' differential is there at least!

But I expect the Soviets to have at the ready air supply and more planes to throw in the fray to raise their own naval interdiction.

I'm keeping some fighters in reserve just in case the Soviets are to pay a visit to the airfields and augumented the flak in the sector. I am also caressing to do the same to them but their flak levels are impressive.

For now I see that the Russians are digging airfields in all the train stations.

[AlbertN]

T59 - New Patch Doubts

This is my attack - German attack.

Losses are pretty lousy for the Soviets considering what was thrown at them. BUT check the artilleries.
German artilleries here are highly inefficient. Big calibers worked some but because they're BIG calibers. The Soviet 76mm is more efficient than the German artilleries.
And we talk of pratically '41 quality troops (NM dropped in July so not enough losses to have erased the experience of the Germans and it is 75 to 70).

That spells doom to any potential attack. Be careful - this is not a 'German nerf' per se, but it makes Germany not worthy to play again because the attacker will be severely penalized.

Now I'll make the same type of screenshot - just of one of the Soviet attacks of MSAG against me.

In both circumstances I expect the attacker to have used quality units (so it is, Guard Units will be for Soviet attack screenshot) and the leaders you can see, fine and fancy people with high numbers!

[AlbertN]

T59 Russian Attacks

Here you can see the numbers of the Soviets.
These are Guard Units so supposedly better than your normal grunts in the Rifle Corps / Divisions.

But for example the same German Infantry Gun 75mm - that in the previous attack had 0.45 HPE ration ... here defending skyrockets to 10.5 and 12.7 ?

Similarly, the Russian 76mm that when defending had a 8.9 HPE ratio, when attacking by supposedly more trained and superior troops goes to 0.3 to 0.4 ?

IF this is intended I suspect the game will just turn into a trench war for the most, that is very boring.

There is not even a differential in troop quality I feel IF the 75mm of Germans is the same as the one of Russians when attacking pretty much.

I just see a pattern there and it worries me. I will go on with the turn - but I can already see Germany gone bogus.
Why if the thing affects both sides?
Well - who attacks in '41 and '42 for the most? The Soviets will just snowball the benefit of having a cheaper defence.

[AlbertN]

T59 - Pattern Continues ...

This was in the Leningrad zone. 6 German divisions barely scratched the Russian defenders, with just a lvl 1 fort.

My only supposed consolation is that the tables will be turned IF this patch remains.

Right now I am not going anywhere at this rate of casualties. I am pretty much at risk of losing any attack I do, with subsequent hammering of morale, experience, etc.

I've decided already that I am not to counterattack the Soviets in their advances - and let them come at me, let them exhaust and then maybe do some localized counterattack only if they're very exhausted.

But MSAG learnt his lessons well and after having attacked he sends forth weak formations to act as screens for his hard hitters. A luxury the Axis rarely has.

[IDGBIA]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

T59 - New Patch Doubts

This is my attack - German attack.

Losses are pretty lousy for the Soviets considering what was thrown at them. BUT check the artilleries.

thanks for the in game example of what German attacks look like right now, after seeing this I think its possible the nerf was a bit too far in the other direction also for all my complaining about playing soviets I obviously think germany should still be able to push and inflict Heavy casualties especially with such a local advantage

[Joel Billings]

The artillery in those battles are still doing a lot from those screenshots, but not as much as in 08. Artillery is still causing more disruption than it used to, but given more direct fire rounds at longer ranges, other things can hit more too. I'd withhold judgement until you see more battles with a greater variety of battles. The defender has always shot and hit much more than the attacker per element. That's not changed since earlier versions. That's WAD.

BTW, can you include a screenshot of the losses to date, both air and ground. That would be interesting to see. BTW, you started the summer with the Axis having a much better force ratio versus the Soviets than was historically the case.