StB tyronec (Soviet) vs Rosencrantus.

[tyronec]

This game over?

No, on hold waiting for the HQ support unit bug to be resolved.
I think we have started again.

[tyronec]

With patch 01.15 in place we have restarted.
No GA as the two AS and auto-intercept bugs are unresolved. As this is disadvantageous to the VVS will review if we are going to proceed or wait for those fixes when we get to the summer. In the meantime am thinking to send all the bombers to the Reserve and save them for later.
Soviets will un-assault one HQ.

Axis transfer one Panzer battalion from the SR.

A long time since we played a move so have forgotten what was happening. Axis have trashed my units that were making the pocket to the SW of Stalingrad. Will need to consider what to do here.
Some problems on the Black sea too where some units are isolated again. Am paying heavily for letting them get cut off.

[Beethoven1]

There are a pretty significant stretches of the front where the German defenses look fairly weak (just regiments in various places) where you have made no attempts to attack the entire game. Just wondering what is your thinking behind that? Germany is able to field those stacks of 3 divisions on one hex in areas like Orel etc only because you are letting him get by with so few troops in other parts of the front. Of course, if you wanted Of course, you would have a bit fewer troops there as well if you tried to do more attacks elsewhere, but I don't think it would take many more troops to put a bit more pressure elsewhere (e.g. Rzhev etc). When you are attacking, you have the luxury of being able to concentrate your attacking troops on whichever hex you want. Whereas the defender has to guess which hex you are going to attack and can't concentrate their forces everywhere you might attack. When you are attacking, you only have to be strong on whichever hex you want to attack, whereas when you are defending you have to be strong on ALL hexes that you think the enemy might attack, so I think it takes fewer additional troops to create a threat of some attacks that Germany will have to respond to than it takes Germany to really stop those attacks. Is it that you think the losses from those additional attacks would just not be worth it? Are you waiting for summer maybe (perhaps losses would be more favorable then)?

[tyronec]

There are a pretty significant stretches of the front where the German defenses look fairly weak (just regiments in various places) where you have made no attempts to attack the entire game. Just wondering what is your thinking behind that? Germany is able to field those stacks of 3 divisions on one hex in areas like Orel etc only because you are letting him get by with so few troops in other parts of the front. Of course, if you wanted Of course, you would have a bit fewer troops there as well if you tried to do more attacks elsewhere, but I don't think it would take many more troops to put a bit more pressure elsewhere (e.g. Rzhev etc). When you are attacking, you have the luxury of being able to concentrate your attacking troops on whichever hex you want. Whereas the defender has to guess which hex you are going to attack and can't concentrate their forces everywhere you might attack. When you are attacking, you only have to be strong on whichever hex you want to attack, whereas when you are defending you have to be strong on ALL hexes that you think the enemy might attack, so I think it takes fewer additional troops to create a threat of some attacks that Germany will have to respond to than it takes Germany to really stop those attacks. Is it that you think the losses from those additional attacks would just not be worth it? Are you waiting for summer maybe (perhaps losses would be more favorable then)?

The only area where I see this applies is around the Rzhev bulge. If I attack here it could force him back and then he will have a shorter line and won't need to have single regiments any more. He will have to pull back here eventually without my attacking from the north, so I don't see much benefit in starting an offensive. Maybe if the casualty ration was favorable it would be worth it.

[Beethoven1]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

The only area where I see this applies is around the Rzhev bulge. If I attack here it could force him back and then he will have a shorter line and won't need to have single regiments any more. He will have to pull back here eventually without my attacking from the north, so I don't see much benefit in starting an offensive. Maybe if the casualty ration was favorable it would be worth it.

It is true about the line getting shorter if you attack in some places, but I don't think that applies everywhere, even in the Rzhev salient. In the southern part of it for example, if you attack there towards Yelyna, it would make the line longer. If you had even a small number of AFVs (maybe 2-3 mech/tank divisions) lurking around, you could also pick off units to encircle and destroy, and he would not break them out if all he had around was a minimal number of regiments. It wouldn't take much to break through those regiments with 5 or 6 defensive CVs and form some small pockets, I don't think.

If nothing else, I bet you could get a favorable casualty ratio attacking that 2=11 Luftwaffe unit that is 4-5 hexes southeast of Vyazma for example, and if you attacked around there it would make the line longer. In general you seem to get pretty good casualty ratios attacking Wehrmacht regiments also from what I have seen.

[tyronec]

End of turn.

Had to spend a lot of time reorganising armies with less command points from the assault groups.

Kalinin. The usual few attritional attacks.

Volkov. Repositioning around Orel.

Western. A few attacks, am sacrificing a tank brigade to temporarily pocket a Panzer stack and flip some hexes.

Central. Two good attacks and following up where Axis have vacated some terrain. A couple of armies have to report to STAVKA here.

SW. Good progress and a couple of follow up attacks.

Stalingrad. Beginning to break in to the city.

South. Bit of a disaster on the coast. I lost 500 aircraft failing to do Naval Interdiction so now will lose about 3 divisions that are isolated.

Good loss ratio during the Soviet turn and more guards conversions.

[tyronec]

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

The only area where I see this applies is around the Rzhev bulge. If I attack here it could force him back and then he will have a shorter line and won't need to have single regiments any more. He will have to pull back here eventually without my attacking from the north, so I don't see much benefit in starting an offensive. Maybe if the casualty ration was favorable it would be worth it.


It is true about the line getting shorter if you attack in some places, but I don't think that applies everywhere, even in the Rzhev salient. In the southern part of it for example, if you attack there towards Yelyna, it would make the line longer. If you had even a small number of AFVs (maybe 2-3 mech/tank divisions) lurking around, you could also pick off units to encircle and destroy, and he would not break them out if all he had around was a minimal number of regiments. It wouldn't take much to break through those regiments with 5 or 6 defensive CVs and form some small pockets, I don't think.

If nothing else, I bet you could get a favorable casualty ratio attacking that 2=11 Luftwaffe unit that is 4-5 hexes southeast of Vyazma for example, and if you attacked around there it would make the line longer. In general you seem to get pretty good casualty ratios attacking Wehrmacht regiments also from what I have seen.

There may be a case for some attritional attacks. I am reluctant to commit strong forces so far from an active depot as the units are difficult to Refit and getting supplies to them trashes the truck fleet.
If I had the hexes cleared around V-L and the supplies could get along that single track line then it would be different.

[tyronec]

Axis holding their positions in the north.
Pulling back in the center.
Have wiped out the three division pocket on the Black sea.

[tyronec]

End of turn.

Some good attacks by Kalinin front and have the single rail line from V-L open, hopefully...

Central area. Mostly just following up. Beginning to push through the pocket at Stalingrad.

South. A few attritional attacks, am expecting Axis to pull back with the rail line through Rostov coming under threat, but maybe not.

Lot of units mostly resting up this turn, there is a risk Axis will trash some of my weak units following up the retreat.

[Beethoven1]

Do you know why Axis retreated so much in the center suddenly, after not having retreated much earlier? Supply? Or were you doing something that put stronger pressure than before?

[tyronec]

Do you know why Axis retreated so much in the center suddenly, after not having retreated much earlier? Supply? Or were you doing something that put stronger pressure than before?

I think in the area East of Kharkov they were under serious pressure and it was a prudent move. East of Kursk they were strong enough to hold the front line but maybe keeping a salient here would not have been so good.

[tyronec]

End of turn

Kalinin. The usual few attritional attacks, also did a couple around Leningrad.

Center. Quiet move, Axis defences are so strong. Just did two attacks which both won and the Central Front moves southwards to where the game is more open.

Donets area. Stalingrad Front cut through a hole in the Axis line and pocket a couple of units, will likely cost me three tank brigades getting trashed but the Axis line is thin and may be able to capitalise next turn.
I just failed to shift the stack defending the river, if that had gone things would have really opened up as would have been paying less MPs to cross the river.
SW Front also get in a couple of attacks and are pushing towards Rostov.
Anyway, the river defence line is well gone so will see how far they pull back now.

Stalingrad. Should take the last airfield next turn.

Far south. Fairly quiet, Axis still not pulling back which surprises me.

One Mountain division retained from the SR by Axis.

[tyronec]

Kalinin - the usual few attacks.

The center - do some damage in a couple of areas but very heavy going. Lost nearly 400 tanks in one attack when a Pz div got activated.

Stalingrad. Last airport taken, moving most of my troops away.

Rostov. My incursion last turn got trashed but am able to get some good counter attacks in as a result of Axis units being out of position. Rail line to the Cacausus is interdicted, not sure how good sea supply will be for all those Axis units SE of Rostov but I suspect not great.

Far south. All quiet this turn.

[tyronec]

A costly turn for the Soviets between some strong Axis counter attacks and then some of my attacks being heavy failures. Also note the 20:1 A2A kills.

The front is fairly static, Axis forming a line from Rostov up to Lenningrad and with mud closing in that should be mostly it till the Spring.

The rail line to Rostov is cut so all the Axis units in the south will be supplied by sea. I think the rail network no longer functions so if not near a port they should be having some supply difficulties soon and using up a lot of trucks - but maybe am misunderstanding this.

Attack on Stalingrad fails, will give up attacking and just wait for them to dissolve. Don't need the rail line anyway.

[tyronec]

Mud everywhere.
Just one attack, the only other action of note is my tank brigade from last turn has been cut off.
Will start reporting again when Spring arrives.

[tyronec]

Mud clears in the south and am able to renew the offensive.

Near Rostov get across the river in two places and eliminate the division garrison that was left behind in Rostov.

N. Cacausus Front routs a few units.

Axis pulling back from Rzhev this turn.

Elsewhere much of the army is on REFIT and am bringing units out of the Reserve to get prepared for the summer offensive.
Hopefully can get some more CLEAR around Rostov and keep pushing forwards there before the Spring.

[tyronec]

Mud clears across the map.

A few attrition attacks spread out across the front, am only attacking with good odds and mostly with Guards Rifle Corps but even winning the losses are often around 5:1.

Good progress around Odessa where the Axis front line had a couple of gaps. Send the Tank Corps through and spread out, have two small pockets and also taken two ports along the coast.
If Axis have enough for a strong counter attack this could cost half my mechanised force, so am just hoping they don't. Expect one pocket will be broken easily enough, maybe the other just might hold.

Have agreed to do no GA pending an auto-intercept fix.

[821Bobo]

Good progress around Odessa where the Axis front line had a couple of gaps.

I assume you meant Stalino. Looks grim for Axis. Basically looks like another Stalingrad. I doubt he can recover.

[tyronec]

Um, I meant Rostov... Always getting those two mixed up.

[AlbertN]

I suspect Bobo is right here - the Russian have made an amount of road westward too and captured ports to fuel further offensive as well!

Especially as there are Axis forces still ... in the Maikop sector and now Crimea whole is at risk of cutting / falling leaving the sea option as the only way out for these units as well.