Machine Gun Battalions

[DeletedUser44]

I have 2 concerns over the German Machine Gun Battalions.

1. Actually, I had thought you guys had the MG Battalions in Norway as the non-motorized version. But on double-checking, you have them motorized. Cudos!

2. Regarding the Machine Gun Battalion TOEs, I believe they are under-strength and lacking some of the TOE elements.

(I wish there was an easier way to explain this, but unfortunately not; you will have to bear with me...)

Almost all of the infantry-based TOEs, there is a fundamental baseline squad element. (i.e. fallschirmjaeger, rifle, cavalry, ... )

Those end up providing the more basic, common, weapons. (i.e. Rifles, LMGs, SMGs, Pistols, ... )

But for Machine Gun Battalions, you did not define any MG squads (or sections). For those, you just used the 7.92mm MG34 Machine Gun.

The details of the 7.92mm MG34 Machine Gun uses the 7.92mm MG34 MMG, Rifle & Pistol (at least it does that...).

But it does not include any LMGs or SMGs. As a result, the German Mot Machine Gun Battalion TOEs are missing all of the SMGs or LMGs they historically contained.

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I would suggest creating a 'Hvy MG Section (mot)' ground element to be used by the Mot Machine Gun Battalion TOE, to include the sub-elements needed. It would be similar to the current 'Panzer Hvy MG Section', but would contain:
- 5 men
- 1 SMG (team leader)
- 1 HMG (obviously)
- 2 Pistols
- 2 Rifles
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Roughly, the following would be used to construct the Machine Gun Battalion (mot) TOE
----

Hvy MG Platoon (mot) :
- 2 x Hvy MG Sections (mot)
- 1 x SMG (platoon leader)
- 1 x 50mm GrW 36 Mortar (Mortar Section)
----
MG Company (mot) :
- 3 x Hvy MG Platoons (mot)
- 1 x SMG (company commander)
- 3 x Antitank Rifles (antitank gun section)
----

The German Mot Machine Gun Battalion would end up looking like:
-----
- 1 x HQ Company : 2 Hvy MG Platoons (mot)
- 3 x MG Company (mot)
- 2 x Anti Tank Platoons : (3 ATGs, 1 LMG) (ea)
- 1 x Mortar Platoon : 6 81mm Mortars
-----

This should pick up the missing SMGs and LMGs.

Please review and update accordingly. (can provide the historical references)

Thank you.

[821Bobo]

https://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gl ... derung.htm

I believe the OOB is the one after Poland campaign

Bei einigen Bataillonen erfolgte nach dem Polenfeldzug eine Umgliederung in:
-Stab (wie oben)
-3 MG-Kompanien mit je 3 sMG-Zügen, 1 Kradschützenzug
-1 schwere Kompanie mit 1 Pionierzug, 1 Infanteriegeschützzug (2 leichte IG), 1 Pak-Zug, 1 Granatwerferzug (6 Granatwerfer 8 cm).
-Troßeinheiten

Anyway its a mess and not all were same.

[DeletedUser44]

Pretty much aware.

The changes I proposed would only impact the independent motorized MG Battalions, using 1941 kstns.

What is currently used by WiTE2 is pretty close, just missing all of the SMGs and LMGs.

[GibsonPete]

I had a similar discussion with the developers years ago in WITE about platoon/company HQ and missing machine guns. They stated those elements were not missing but found in the support squads that made up the unit. To include all that extra stuff that was not actually involved in combat was unnecessary. For example, a machine gun assigned to an artillery battalion does not participate in front line combat so is counted in the support elements. I doubt their position on this matter has changed.

[DeletedUser44]

I understand their stance on motorcycle squads, but SMGs is pretty different case.

This is regarding current elements not properly equipped.

In the case of motorized MG Battalions, each MG Section leader was issued an SMG. (just like they currently allocate for Rifle Squads, but never got around to it for MGs). Additionally, this filtered up to the Platoon leader and CO.

They never defined an MG Section (or squad), like they did for Rifle Squads. So, WiTE2 currently has a standard Welle 1 Infantry Battalion at:

12 HMGs
36 LMGs
36 SMGs (some sources have this as high as 48)
6 81mm Mortars
9 50mm Mortars

whereas a motorized MG Battalion has:

44 HMGs
6 81mm Mortars
9 50mm Mortars

(they are missing over 44 SMGs and 2 LMGs)

There is noway they can attribute that to "support". That would just be completely goofy.

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EDIT - Updated to add in the LMGs I previously left off.

[panzer51]

Well, Matrix calls support anything that in their view does not participate in a battle. So if they are there for guard duty then I guess they don't fire.

[DeletedUser44]

ORIGINAL: panzer51

Well, Matrix calls support anything that in their view does not participate in a battle. So if they are there for guard duty then I guess they don't fire.

The missing SMGs are the equivalent as those assigned to the Rifle Squad. (i.e. Rifle Squad Leader)

In this case, they have the MG Section leader firing, but with a pistol. There is noway a section leader is not going to be participating in combat.