Odessa Patch 2.11 what is the Axis strategy

[tm1]

I know there were issues with these city forts being to week and not allowing the correct amount of Soviet divs.

I do get the city falling after 2 attacks is to easy but it seems the opposite.

True its my first outing with new patch but its looking grim I hit the city twice with parts of both 4th Rom Army and 11th Armee ( 8 DIVS ) and this thing seems to have Zombie heal or something.

The Luftwaffe cuts off the sea supply its turn, then when its the Soviet turn they retake the sea routes and resupply the dam city.

I cant commit the entire 11th Armee I need to keep it pushing east, likewise The Romanians will not take the city alone.

The last thing I need is a need is Soviet fortress in my rear when winter hits and the port is vital my own supply lines.

I'm preparing to throw Pioneer units into the fray when I can switch them from other sectors, this city is real thorn in the side right now, one that needs to go away as fast as possible.


I though maybe a Panzer DIV or 2 but I need them for drive to the river cities.

The air component of the game right now is dodgy so I am hesitant to bomb the city as I could lose a lot of planes.


Anyone playing 2.11 with any tricks up there sleeve on how to deal with City.

regards

[xhoel]

I dont think much has changed with the new patch regarding city combat.

ORIGINAL: tm1

The Luftwaffe cuts off the sea supply its turn, then when its the Soviet turn they retake the sea routes and resupply the dam city.

Do you have Naval Patrol set to run on both your phase and the enemy phase? If you dont, that would explain the result. If the Soviets are flying their own Naval Interdiction you need fighters near the coast to prevent that as much as possible.

I would suggest you to never attack a city immediately after it has been surrounded. Let them sit for a turn or 2, they will be a lot weaker then.

ORIGINAL: tm1

I cant commit the entire 11th Armee I need to keep it pushing east, likewise The Romanians will not take the city alone. I'm preparing to throw Pioneer units into the fray when I can switch them from other sectors, this city is real thorn in the side right now, one that needs to go away as fast as possible.

You dont need too. The Rumanians are good to simply keep a cordon around the city while your German units get ready for the assault. Keep a Corps from the 11th Army back with like 5 divisions but keep the rest of the army moving east. Keep this Corps 2-3 hexes back from the city and let them build up CPP and lose fatigue. Attach a Pioneer Bn to each division and add a lot of artillery to the Corps. Attach it now, so they can build up CPP, which increases their chance of commitment when you attack. After the city has been surrounded for 2 turns you can use them to attack.

ORIGINAL: tm1

I though maybe a Panzer DIV or 2 but I need them for drive to the river cities.

No need too, keep your panzers east, the infantry will do the job for you.

ORIGINAL: tm1

The air component of the game right now is dodgy so I am hesitant to bomb the city as I could lose a lot of planes.

Thats a good decision. Currently Flak Losses are way too high to use GS in such a battlefield. Use your bombers to block the city lines but not for GS, allow the artillery to do the disruption for you.

Hope this helps!

[DeletedUser44]

Pretty much what xhoel said.

But for something like this, to hell with the AC losses and I use my bombers. Make sure to pick the biggest bombs for their load-out. Also, don't go with the default Alt of 9000 ft. I bump it up to 15,000 ft or so. (they may drop down automatically when they reach their target, but still seems to help reduce some of the AC losses)

I use 2 corps from 11th Army. And he is right about letting them sit for about 2 turns to really build up their CCP. I give them supply priority 4 for these couple of turns as well. And try to sit them on a rail depot. Should be one pretty close to Odessa by then.

I assign Model to one of the Corps. Make sure it has the most divisions / combat elements than the other corps. (or you may not get Model leading the assault)

Also I use all the super hvy / siege arty for this. Be generous with their pioneer assignments.

[AlbertN]

Do not use Siege guns or so. Urban combat is short range and by paradox the combat system will bring you 600mm bombards in range of enemy short range weapons.

In Wite2 the combersome siege guns can follow up panzer in their sweeps and ought to be used in open plains where they can fire the most. Bring heavy guns for urban but not the non replaceable one.

[Stamb]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Do not use Siege guns or so. Urban combat is short range and by paradox the combat system will bring you 600mm bombards in range of enemy short range weapons.

In Wite2 the combersome siege guns can follow up panzer in their sweeps and ought to be used in open plains where they can fire the most. Bring heavy guns for urban but not the non replaceable one.

When to use them, Leningrad? As Moscow in most cases will be not under the siege in PvP.

[AlbertN]

Clear or light wood is the best. I underline I am no expert but if one looks at how often artilleries fire that is where the combat has the starting longest range. Though my analysis was with arty patch but I do not believe the basic gist changed.

If you have some time to spare go detail level 7 and observe some combats in detail. For science and your own learning

[DeletedUser44]

I used them at Odessa. Didn't seem to cause a problem.

If not there, then where?

Believe they were historically used there.

I don't have the patience to micro-manage to that degree to accommodate WiTE2's shortcomings.

If something is screwed with the WiTE2 combat system, they need to fix.

If range is going to be that big of an issue at the tactical scale, then they need to put the rail artillery in.

[Stamb]

I thought in a battle report you can see a range where was a fire. And for arty it was its maximum range last time a checked it.

[Gam3r]

ORIGINAL: tm1
The Luftwaffe cuts off the sea supply its turn, then when its the Soviet turn they retake the sea routes and resupply the dam city.

You need to take airfields around Kherson, otherwise it would be too costly to maintain air superiority at Odessa

[AlbertN]

I was on the phone earlier. I'll try to explain better using screenshots from manual!

Here to be noted - Range is selected, Elements will fire in rounds.

The following numbers are purely and exclusively for example sake:

So let's say in Clear Terrain the real range is 1000 meters, and each 100 meters there is one round. So if Heavy Artilleries start shooting at 1000, Medium at 800, Small at 500, Rifles at 100 and Hand Grenades at 0 ... the heavy artilleries will fire 10 times in Clear.

[AlbertN]

Here the part nr.2 - Terrain explained.

The manual states that depending on terrain, the fight can start at a shorter range.

So IF the Clear Terrain has an engaging distance of 1000 meters, Heavy Woods may have 500.

Thus artilleries vs Urban are simply non efficient. Still needed, given! What I am saying is that do not use the big, non replaceable ones, because they're at risk and ... you just do not get new ones.

If you lose some 150s or even 210s, there is a production for. And artillery is needed to beat fort levels.

Your best use of Siege Artilleries and the like is against Clear or Light Woods hexes. I'd say also river crossings but I am far from sure, as I dread if things go awry if the attack gets a 'Hold' due to the accrued retreat penalties.

25.5.3 specifies that Urban, Cities and Port combats always happen at close range.

That is at least my take on it - and I explained how / why I got to develop that opinion.

Do not take my word for an absolute truth, since it is just a player deduction that may well be wrong. (As I've been proved wrong for other rule interpretation of the game already!)

[Stamb]

I will check some battles, but using super heavy artillery in clear terrain is a waste IMHO as they use much more supply and in clear terrain it is much easier to push.

[AlbertN]

Now about Odessa - you need to Isolate it by sea.

It's not really a problem if you have the airbases south of Odessa and the Soviets cannot get there. Bring Bf109s there and have air superiority AD as umbrella and escort your naval bombers. If needs to be bring the Fliegerfurer See from the Luftflotte 1 to down there.
You may also use the Romanian Gabbianos, but they're non replaceable.

Otherwise a good bunch of He111 can do the trick.

As someone else suggested already to start naval interdiction early helps, because Odessa fuels the surrounding troops with its freight and thus keeps less into own stocks, for a siege.

In general it is a matter of pure bruteforce once isolated.
And on a relevant note - for what concerns air supply, on the coast it is interceptable. It can fly over 20 hexes of enemy territory and not be intercepted at all. But if the arrival hex of the air supply is a port - and there are enemy fighters in range, fair chances they'll get there. So keep some 109's at the ready for that, doing no other stuff or ground support.

[GibsonPete]

Something to add to what the others had posted, Pioneers, Stugs, and Flamm panzers but not panzer divisions. I have found Flamm panzers if used sparely can tip the scale. Be patient and plan the attack to occur after the city is isolated.

[AlbertN]

Ah yes the Flamm Panzers! Good call Gibson. Totally forgot of these because they're kind of few shots marvels.

In general 'flamethrower' things are pretty excellent at close combat.

[Lurberri]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Ah yes the Flamm Panzers! Good call Gibson. Totally forgot of these because they're kind of few shots marvels.

In general 'flamethrower' things are pretty excellent at close combat.

In fact, the Pioneer units themselves also include one flamethrower per squad.

[tm1]

[quote]Do you have Naval Patrol set to run on both your phase and the enemy phase? If you dont, that would explain the result. If the Soviets are flying their own Naval Interdiction you need fighters near the coast to prevent that as much as possible.

Hi

Not exactly certain of this I have looked through the manual on the subject and looked at my Naval directive.

Im reorganising fighter units and XI Korps that has Pioneers.

cheers

[tm1]

ORIGINAL: Gam3r

ORIGINAL: tm1
The Luftwaffe cuts off the sea supply its turn, then when its the Soviet turn they retake the sea routes and resupply the dam city.

You need to take airfields around Kherson, otherwise it would be too costly to maintain air superiority at Odessa

Thanks for this tip I wont reach City in 1 turn but so at the moment Odessa will have to sit besieged for the time being need to redeploy more troops for Kherson.

cheers

[tm1]

ORIGINAL: GibsonPete

Something to add to what the others had posted, Pioneers, Stugs, and Flamm panzers but not panzer divisions. I have found Flamm panzers if used sparely can tip the scale. Be patient and plan the attack to occur after the city is isolated.

Thanks, will have to find where my flamm Panzers are and redeploy so it might take some time to get everything in place.

cheers

[tm1]

ORIGINAL: Sauron_II

I used them at Odessa. Didn't seem to cause a problem.

If not there, then where?

Believe they were historically used there.

I don't have the patience to micro-manage to that degree to accommodate WiTE2's shortcomings.

If something is screwed with the WiTE2 combat system, they need to fix.

If range is going to be that big of an issue at the tactical scale, then they need to put the rail artillery in.

My closest siege guns are with 17th Armee, so if need be a can switch them.

cheers