Odessa Patch 2.11 what is the Axis strategy

A complete overhaul and re-development of Gary Grigsby's War in the East, with a focus on improvements to historical accuracy, realism, user interface and AI.

Moderator: Joel Billings

DeletedUser44
Posts: 417
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 4:14 pm

RE: Odessa Patch 2.11 what is the Axis strategy

Post by DeletedUser44 »

The issue of German Siege Artillery being at some risk due to proximity of enemy small arms fire seem, at the very onset, far-fetched.

https://www.cfspress.com/sharpshooters/ ... Weapon.pdf
(small arms effective range 300 yards - roughly 275 m)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Ger%C3%A4t
(4,320 m - heavy concrete-piercing shell)

Counter-battery? If Soviets have something with that kind of range, then yes. It should be vulnerable. (counter-battery fire was a serious threat)

However, as the following narration illustrates, counter-battery fire was not always possible.
The Russian batteries, however, were situated so far to the rear of the Russian main line of resistance that although they were able to hit the German battle position with long-range fire, they could not, in turn, be reached by the German artillery from normal firing positions. In some cases the German sound-ranging battery did not even manage to detect these distant Russian batteries. If, however, German artillery was displaced forward and employed close behind the German main line of resistance in order to shell a Russian battery which had been located, it was very soon identified by the Russians — whether by means of sound-ranging equipment could not be determined — and was shelled by 80-mm and 120-mm mortars (the latter had a range of six kilometers), against which it was helpless, and, in addition, was taken under fire by Russian artillery. This was a very unpleasant situation.

On the other hand, when the Germans were attacking, the Russian artillery was always in a position to support its infantry by shelling any assembling German forces which had been identified and by firing a barrage in front of the Russian main line of resistance and shelling any German penetrations into the Russian battle position. Thus, the Russian artillery was protected by Russian mortars, while the Russian artillery itself, in turn, protected the Russian mortars and the infantry. Later on, information supplied by Russian prisoners of war confirmed German conjectures.

Direct Fire wpns? I cannot see German Siege Artillery (or hardly any arty) being at risk from direct-fire weapons. That is one advantage of indirect fire weapon systems, being generally obstructed from direct-fire.
(note - short-ranged mortars may be an obvious exception)

I have no insider-detailed knowledge of how WiTE2 resolves the tactical combats - other than common knowledge. I can only hope that it isn't deploying all weapon systems on some imaginary pair of encroaching parallel lines.

Other than some kind of bizzaro WiTE2 combat mechanic, I cannot envision the siege artillery being under any serious threat from enemy small-arms or direct-fire wpns. If this is a real risk to be concerned over, then .... OMG.





User avatar
rhaltigan
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:55 am

RE: Odessa Patch 2.11 what is the Axis strategy

Post by rhaltigan »

I use the 11th Army and Assign German Infantry. Remove all the Romanian units first and then transfer German units to the 11th. Then move fast to Odessa, surround Odessa by round 5. Then assign a good Corp Commander to the 11th, with good infantry stats. Then Attack, no air needed. It falls every time, don't let them dig in is key.

Image
Attachments
218738057_..123892_n.jpg
218738057_..123892_n.jpg (534.61 KiB) Viewed 268 times
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. George S. Patton
User avatar
rhaltigan
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:55 am

RE: Odessa Patch 2.11 what is the Axis strategy

Post by rhaltigan »

I use the 11th Army and Assign German Infantry. First Remove the Romanian units and the assign a good Corp Commander to the 11th. Move to Odessa as fast Possible, then surround it. Then Attack, no Air needed. It falls every time.

Image
Attachments
218738057_..123892_n.jpg
218738057_..123892_n.jpg (534.61 KiB) Viewed 268 times
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. George S. Patton
User avatar
xhoel
Posts: 3339
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:46 pm
Location: Germany

RE: Odessa Patch 2.11 what is the Axis strategy

Post by xhoel »

ORIGINAL: tm1

Hi

Not exactly certain of this I have looked through the manual on the subject and looked at my Naval directive.

cheers

Need to make sure that it is set up on both air phases.

Image
Attachments
1.jpg
1.jpg (302.55 KiB) Viewed 268 times
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
tm.asp?m=4488465
WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
Stamb
Posts: 2470
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:07 pm

RE: Odessa Patch 2.11 what is the Axis strategy

Post by Stamb »

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

I was on the phone earlier. I'll try to explain better using screenshots from manual!

Here to be noted - Range is selected, Elements will fire in rounds.

The following numbers are purely and exclusively for example sake:

So let's say in Clear Terrain the real range is 1000 meters, and each 100 meters there is one round. So if Heavy Artilleries start shooting at 1000, Medium at 800, Small at 500, Rifles at 100 and Hand Grenades at 0 ... the heavy artilleries will fire 10 times in Clear.
Here is a an image from you AAR with a fight in a city
Image
look on the RNG column, looks like it is maximum for the artillery, are you sure that artillery is moving closer to an enemy and then shooting & repeat?
Слава Україні!
Glory to Ukraine!
AlbertN
Posts: 4280
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:44 pm
Location: Italy

RE: Odessa Patch 2.11 what is the Axis strategy

Post by AlbertN »

I'll number crunch some more.
But no I am definitely not sure, I've opinions, deductions and the like. If I was -sure- of things I'd probably be at some Expert level of the game, and I do not define myeslf that way.
It is a process of exploration and learning through playing and observations.

But my main message was that artillery shoots less due to the combat starting in closer range or shortening the range quicker.

I do not exclude I am wrong on all the line and maybe I observed one combat that was the exception or so.
I am more than welcome to share opinions and ideas for a mutual better improvement!
Stamb
Posts: 2470
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:07 pm

RE: Odessa Patch 2.11 what is the Axis strategy

Post by Stamb »

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

I'll number crunch some more.
But no I am definitely not sure, I've opinions, deductions and the like. If I was -sure- of things I'd probably be at some Expert level of the game, and I do not define myeslf that way.
It is a process of exploration and learning through playing and observations.

But my main message was that artillery shoots less due to the combat starting in closer range or shortening the range quicker.

I do not exclude I am wrong on all the line and maybe I observed one combat that was the exception or so.
I am more than welcome to share opinions and ideas for a mutual better improvement!
That is why we have forum and different discussions here
Слава Україні!
Glory to Ukraine!
User avatar
tm1
Posts: 2561
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 10:21 pm
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia

RE: Odessa Patch 2.11 what is the Axis strategy

Post by tm1 »

ORIGINAL: xhoel

ORIGINAL: tm1

Hi

Not exactly certain of this I have looked through the manual on the subject and looked at my Naval directive.

cheers

Need to make sure that it is set up on both air phases.

Image


Thanks for the heads up on the air doctrine setup I still a have a bit of ways to go learning this game but just checked here and it is set.

I am a few turns behind in my AAR but here is turn 8's screen shot and the dividends are starting to pay off.

Also thanks everyone else who chipped in with helpful ideas.

Got my Pioneer SU's ready just need to find some Flamm Pz's from somewhere.










Image
Attachments
Odessa.jpg
Odessa.jpg (720.83 KiB) Viewed 268 times
Stamb
Posts: 2470
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:07 pm

RE: Odessa Patch 2.11 what is the Axis strategy

Post by Stamb »

tm1
if your unit is in the adjusted hex to an enemy - it will suffer some loses and fatigue will be building up. In addition to that in your situation you are not gaining CPP (combat preparation points) bonus for ending turn on your own hexes because there is enemy hex next to your units.
You can safely retreat 1 hex back from Odessa in each direction.

Also remember that attack across a river gives additional penalties. When you decide to storm Odessa - make sure to position Germans so there is no river between them and Odessa.
Слава Україні!
Glory to Ukraine!
User avatar
xhoel
Posts: 3339
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:46 pm
Location: Germany

RE: Odessa Patch 2.11 what is the Axis strategy

Post by xhoel »

Im guessing the attacking Corps is the one on the left with 4 divisions? If so, move them a lot closer to Odessa. That way they dont have to march 50 miles to reach the city and attack. You will save MPs and fatigue wont build up that way.
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
tm.asp?m=4488465
WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
Post Reply

Return to “Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2”