Quick Questions Thread

[HOTEC]

Air_FI_1

[HOTEC]

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[Stamb]

Did not know that Security Divisions have 2x modifier in SG. Thanks!
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I have question about freight movement, as mentioned by HLYA is his AAR:

25.4.1 RAILYARD CAPACITY

There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight
location a railyard can be in order to use its railyard
capacity for rail movement.

questions:
1. If there would be only NSS at Berlin and 1 depot in Minsk, without any other intermediate lvl >= 2 railyards in between - it would lead to a case that Minsk would not get any freight as it is > 30 hexes from Berlin and no other depots to draw freight from? What about 200SMP? How does this work together?

2. Also if there are depots with lvl 1 railyards - they get freight only because depots with lvl >= 2 railyards are within a 30 hex range and actually this depots are moving freight to this lvl 1 depots?

3. It says "There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight location a railyard can be..." how presence of a unit affects a situation when there is no nearby depots to draw freight from?

4. There are 3 depots with level >=2 railyards. A B C.
A 20 hexes from C.
B is 31 hex from both of them.
Some part of the rails that are going from A to C are within 30 hex range to B. Does B help with a freight movement only on this part of a rails (within 30 hex range) or still provides support out of its range?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Did not know that Security Divisions have 2x modifier in SG. Thanks!
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I have question about freight movement, as mentioned by HLYA is his AAR:

25.4.1 RAILYARD CAPACITY

There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight
location a railyard can be in order to use its railyard
capacity for rail movement.

questions:
1. If there would be only NSS at Berlin and 1 depot in Minsk, without any other intermediate lvl >= 2 railyards in between - it would lead to a case that Minsk would not get any freight as it is > 30 hexes from Berlin and no other depots to draw freight from? What about 200SMP? How does this work together?

2. Also if there are depots with lvl 1 railyards - they get freight only because depots with lvl >= 2 railyards are within a 30 hex range and actually this depots are moving freight to this lvl 1 depots?

3. It says "There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight location a railyard can be..." how presence of a unit affects a situation when there is no nearby depots to draw freight from?

4. There are 3 depots with level >=2 railyards. A B C.
A 20 hexes from C.
B is 31 hex from both of them.
Some part of the rails that are going from A to C are within 30 hex range to B. Does B help with a freight movement only on this part of a rails (within 30 hex range) or still provides support out of its range?

No idea what is in his AAR but this is completely wrong, really suggest read the section in the Player's Notes for a broad overview of how this actually works

so:

a) something entrains - 'something' can be a unit or freight - lets stick to freight
b) it grabs a 'train' (well a bit of a train) from any viable railyard within 30 hexes that has unused capacity
c) it gets 200 SMP
d) if its freight, it moves as far as it can, it tries for 200 but as move penalties build up it needs more 'train' to get a given distance - in the end the movement penalties overwhelm the ability to move 200 hexes

edit - this is why if you track the amount of freight leaving the NSS it slowly drops as the axis forces push east, until they build in secondary rail links, after that it broadly flatlines. That stock leaving the NSS is the core of the logistics system

e) freight then detrains at the furthest depot that calls for it - the 'train' returns to the railyard (this is where a unit move differs)

If there is freight at Minsk, then it can move in turn one of 2 ways, by truck/horse to a unit or by rail to another depot. If it entrains at Minsk it pulls its trains from available railyards that are 30 hexes away

[SchDerGrosse]

Does distance from HQ matter in any way?

I.e., do I benefit from having my HQs closer than 5 hexes (with regards to combat units) or 15,50 etc. hexes (with regards to subordinate HQ units); like increased chance of leadership and other checks?

Or I can just operate on the edge of command range without any consequence.

Thanks,

[loki100]

check the range (distance) modifiers in 15.5.4, basically you get a 'free' distance for each HQ type (10 for an axis army) and a max range (15 in that case). In the gap between the 2 you get an escalating penalty that reduces the chance to pass a leadership roll, outside the max range there is no contribution (leadership) to the units under command

so crudely, closer is better, but clearly there are other criteria to take into accoun

[SchDerGrosse]

Thanks for the super quick response Loki!

ORIGINAL: loki100

check the range (distance) modifiers in 15.5.4, basically you get a 'free' distance for each HQ type (10 for an axis army) and a max range (15 in that case). In the gap between the 2 you get an escalating penalty that reduces the chance to pass a leadership roll, outside the max range there is no contribution (leadership) to the units under command

so crudely, closer is better, but clearly there are other criteria to take into accoun

[Stamb]

There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight
location a railyard can be in order to use its railyard
capacity for rail movement.

This is actually quote from a manual, not HLYA's words

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight
location a railyard can be in order to use its railyard
capacity for rail movement.

This is actually quote from a manual, not HLYA's words

quite likely but either you or he is misinterpreting what that means - I'm not wading through his AAR but happy to look at a particular post.

your interpretation of what this means - in your questions above isn't right, so there is no way of answering them other than to say somewhere one of you have got the wrong end of the stick on the 30 hex rule.

[Stamb]

Post 99 here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... age=4&key=

But anyway I have hard time understanding what I have quote from a manual. What does it actually mean?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Post 99 here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... age=4&key=

But anyway I have hard time understanding what I have quote from a manual. What does it actually mean?

exactly as in my answer above

[Sammy5IsAlive]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Did not know that Security Divisions have 2x modifier in SG. Thanks!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have question about freight movement, as mentioned by HLYA is his AAR:

25.4.1 RAILYARD CAPACITY

There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight
location a railyard can be in order to use its railyard
capacity for rail movement.

questions:
1. If there would be only NSS at Berlin and 1 depot in Minsk, without any other intermediate lvl >= 2 railyards in between - it would lead to a case that Minsk would not get any freight as it is > 30 hexes from Berlin and no other depots to draw freight from? What about 200SMP? How does this work together?

2. Also if there are depots with lvl 1 railyards - they get freight only because depots with lvl >= 2 railyards are within a 30 hex range and actually this depots are moving freight to this lvl 1 depots?

3. It says "There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight location a railyard can be..." how presence of a unit affects a situation when there is no nearby depots to draw freight from?

4. There are 3 depots with level >=2 railyards. A B C.
A 20 hexes from C.
B is 31 hex from both of them.
Some part of the rails that are going from A to C are within 30 hex range to B. Does B help with a freight movement only on this part of a rails (within 30 hex range) or still provides support out of its range?

Hi Stamb, I'll have a go at answering this. I'm going to try and relate the rules to the 'real world' (at least as far as I understand them)

In real world terms rail capacity is trains. Only Size 2+ railyards contribute capacity. Size 1 railyards can load and unload but don't contribute capacity. So in real world terms, trains will only be 'based' at a Size 2+ railyard (and the bigger the railyard the more trains can be based there). 200SMPs is the maximum distance a unit of freight can travel. In real world terms the distance a train can travel to and from it's 'base' in a week. The 30 hex rule means that a Size 2+ railyard can 'lend' its trains to another railyard of any size within 30 hexes, which can then be used to transport freight up to 200SMPs.

So question 1 - I think as long as Berlin and Minsk are within 400SMPs of each other, Minsk can receive supply direct from Berlin.

Question 2 I'm not sure if I totally understand you? As far as I do understand the question my answer would be that a Size 1 railyard that is within 30 hexes of a Size 2+ RY can both send and receive freight. A Size 1 railyard that is not within 30 hexes can only receive freight (and then send it out by road). To receive freight I think they must be within 200SMPs of either a Size 2+ RY or a Size 1 RY within 30 hexes of the same.

Question 3 Again the question is slightly unclear. I think the mention of units is referring to the transport of units by rail. So potentially for a unit to load on a train it needs to be within 30 hexes of a size 2 railyard? I think in reality this situation is unlikely to come up. The practical implication is that the more 2+ railyard there are within 30 hexes, the lower the proportion of the capacity the unit move will use (and the higher the proportion that will remain to send freight).

Question 4 To answer this I'll expand on your example slightly to say what would happen if there was unlimited stored freight in only one of those depots. Depot A and C could use trains from both depots to send that freight. Depot B could only use its own trains. So Depots A and C could send twice as much of the freight as Depot B is able to.


Hope this makes a bit more sense? If my understanding is incorrect I'm happy to be corrected :p !

[Stamb]

Thanks for the answers. It is probably better not to do a deep dive into logistics for the sake of own mental health

If you are correct about this:
"The 30 hex rule means that a Size 2+ railyard can 'lend' its trains to another railyard of any size within 30 hexes, which can then be used to transport freight up to 200SMPs."

Then is it possible that depot A lend trains to depot B as they are within 30 hexes. Then depot B lend trains that it got from A and its own to a C and so on?

So any railyard on the map can contribute to a global freight network if there are no gaps of > 30 hexes between lvl 2 depots?

[Jango32]

Does a depot have to exist on the hex with the size 2+ railyard in order for its trains to be 'lent' to another railyard?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Thanks for the answers. It is probably better not to do a deep dive into logistics for the sake of own mental health

If you are correct about this:
"The 30 hex rule means that a Size 2+ railyard can 'lend' its trains to another railyard of any size within 30 hexes, which can then be used to transport freight up to 200SMPs."

Then is it possible that depot A lend trains to depot B as they are within 30 hexes. Then depot B lend trains that it got from A and its own to a C and so on?

So any railyard on the map can contribute to a global freight network if there are no gaps of > 30 hexes between lvl 2 depots?

Don't mix up depots with railyards.

Stamb - I don't know where you got all this from but its utterly wrong, to the point of being very misleading. The answer to your original questions as posed are No/No/No/No - it really is that fundamental

This is in the manual - just read the Player's Notes section on how the basics of the logistics system works.

And "any railyard on the map can contribute to a global freight network if there are no gaps of > 30 hexes between lvl 2 depots?" is completely wrong, there is no global freight network (as there was in WiTE1).

freight entrains, to do this and gain the SMP to move the desired distance (remember it can cost > 1MP/hex) it draws on stocks within 30 hexes (nearest first), thats it - it then uses that rail capacity to move. Then the next bit of freight does the same thing

Its actually not complex, and some of the claims in a few AARs are downright misleading.

ORIGINAL: Jango32

Does a depot have to exist on the hex with the size 2+ railyard in order for its trains to be 'lent' to another railyard?

no, the 'trains' are connected to the railyard not to the existence (or not) of any depot

[Sammy5IsAlive]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Thanks for the answers. It is probably better not to do a deep dive into logistics for the sake of own mental health

If you are correct about this:
"The 30 hex rule means that a Size 2+ railyard can 'lend' its trains to another railyard of any size within 30 hexes, which can then be used to transport freight up to 200SMPs."

Then is it possible that depot A lend trains to depot B as they are within 30 hexes. Then depot B lend trains that it got from A and its own to a C and so on?

So any railyard on the map can contribute to a global freight network if there are no gaps of > 30 hexes between lvl 2 depots?

I don't think it can happen directly in the way you describe.

So say you have Railyard A, B and C separated by 20 hexes (so A and C are 40 hexes apart). And that each Railyard has the capacity to move 5k freight. If you had 15k freight in depot C (and nothing in the other depots) it could only send out 10k of it

But it can happen more indirectly. Say we change the distribution of the freight so there is nothing at A, 5k in B and 10k in C. B can use A's trains to move its 5k and C can then use B's trains and it's own to move its 10k. So the extra capacity provided by A has been 'passed along the chain' if that makes sense?

[Stamb]

I did read Player's Notes, if it is file 7 in manual folder, after your first message.
I have general understanding from where to where freight is moving and even trying to do pull push strategy. Just wanted to understand what is going with that lvl 2 railyards and their contribution to freight movement. That is why I was asking questions specifically with such number as 29 and 31 hexes.

Thanks all for replies.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

I did read Player's Notes, if it is file 7 in manual folder, after your first message.
I have general understanding from where to where freight is moving and even trying to do pull push strategy. Just wanted to understand what is going with that lvl 2 railyards and their contribution to freight movement. That is why I was asking questions specifically with such number as 29 and 31 hexes.

Thanks all for replies.

take the Berlin NSS, add up all the level 2+ railyards in 30 hexes, if nothing else claims that rail cap then that is the absolute available to move freight from Berlin. Do the same for Frankfurt, Prague and Vienna - clearly there are overlaps (as a clue, it picks up pretty much every railyard west of Warsaw).

In the end that is a finite max cap.

You may have lost some of this max value via unit rail moves.

How much freight can then be moved from the NSS has 2 variables - how far (further costs more base rail cap) and if there is congestion (ditto).

You can track this as I did from game start to June 42. The amount sent out dips as the axis move east, and on those turns when I entrained units, it increases as secondary rail lines come into use (less congestion).

If you have freight stored say at Minsk, if it moves depot-depot, it will pull the needed rail cap from 30 hexes of Minsk - this is why using admin pts to speed the repair of rail yards that are not going to be depots is a waste - by the time you need it (ie for rail moves) it will have repaired normally

For setting up depots for onward naval transport. Use Stettin or Rostov set to export and priority 1. Export ports get their freight first (so that the freight is there), these 2 will demand almost no rail cap for the NSS-port move. You can then have the receipt ports at 2 and use 3 or 4 elsewhere in the system to pull t to the front.

edit: I, of course, should have written Rostock in the para above.

[Jango32]

Alright. One more; does the railyard need to be as close to 0 damage as possible to lend as many trains as are available, or is railyard damage something that concerns depots only?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Jango32

Alright. One more; does the railyard need to be as close to 0 damage as possible to lend as many trains as are available, or is railyard damage something that concerns depots only?

yes damage both removes 'trains' as well as hitting any associated depot processing capacity. So a level 2 railyard with 50% damage can only produce half the trains as if it was undamaged.

I'm not sure this makes a great difference (or more strictly is hard to generate the level of damage that hurts). I did some left hand-right hand testing in WiTW really hitting the Berlin railyards to the point where they were 60%+ damaged, not sure it hit German movement capacity - but then in WiTW the axis player is less dependent on rail than they are in WiTE2 (on the other hand the Soviets can't flatten parts of Berlin with strategic bombing)