Jap Sub Doctrine

[spence]

Does anybody play the IJN using the Jap Sub Doctrine button ON. I've played both sides PBEM and against the AI with the button ON and OFF and frankly I don't see too much difference. Once against the AI an I-boat popped the Hornet...the only sucessful attack by either side against an undamaged carrier I've seen in any game in better than a year of playing. In that instance I was using the Doctrine ON button. Was that a coincidence?

In the G-canal campaign the I-boats managed as far as I know the following:
sank USS Wasp
sank USS Juneau (already damaged by night surface action)
damaged USS Saratoga after Eastern Solomons
damaged USS North Carolina in same attack as sinking Wasp
damaged USS Obrien in same attack as sinking Wasp (OBrien later sank while in transit to PH with temporary bow)

seems I may have read about a few other successful attacks

With the sole exception of their seeming uncanny ability to blast 1 of a group of 15 subchasers and avoid detection or lay to in a minefield and kill minesweepers I do not rate the IBoats as anything more than annoying to the USN player. Since all the IJN opponents in my PBEM games really seemed to want the button OFF I'd like to hear about how improves their performance. I've got it OFF in my present game as the IJN and it seems that my opponents major warships steam around in a real "Torpedo Junction" with impunity unless they've previously been clobbered by an air strike or surface action.

Anybody wanna sing the I-Boats praises?

[demonterico]

I suspect that most of us do not turn on sub doc because it was a faulty strategy and we don't want to be tied up by it. Also sub doctrine may work in a more historical manner if one uses computer control to run the subs. I'm to much of a micro manager for that.

I do remember a case where one of my subs hit a US carrier with a single torpedo. Slowed it down just enough to win the scenario for the Japanese. I believe it was the Green Hell scenario.

[denisonh]

do remember a case where one of my subs hit a US carrier with a single torpedo. Slowed it down just enough to win the scenario for the Japanese. I believe it was the Green Hell scenario.

I have found them effective as the IJN player. There are about 7 more merchantmen listed as sunk by IJN sub torps not listed. In one PBEM game as USN, I had an sub IJN torpedo the Lex in the opening turns of a SC#17 near Luganville. Later in the game, the USN gets too good at ASW, so they are lesss effective, but early they can be effective.

[Zeta16]

I guess I have no luck with my IJN subs. I keep them in deep water and move them if spotted and they still get sunk in early 42, without sinking much.

[Rocco]

I always seem to ring up quite a few MSW with the Jap I boats, which is great in my opinion.

Hey Zeta, did you get my turn I sent Thursday night\Friday morning?

Rocco

[Zeta16]

I just sent you the last turn I had.

[crsutton]

All my campaigns have been played with the sub doctrine on. It works fairly well. Japanes subs will still attack merchants but not as frequently. They will, however, do a good job hitting warships. A good Japanese player just learns to use them differently.

I have no problem with it on as in #17 and #19- the most common scenarios as the Japanese have so much of an edge early in the game that the Allies need the little help that sub doctrine gives them. The Allies have to deal with the poor performance of the MK14 torpedo while the Japanese torpedoes are very accruate and twice as deadly. I can't see why the Japanes player should not be saddled with sub doctrine as a trade off.