The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

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RE: T14: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by xhoel »

Losses

Only 20.000 irrecoverable losses this week on our side. This is clearly the calm before the storm as the proper Soviet offensive has not started yet. Soviet KIAs at 35k and high number of guns lost especially due to the heavy city fighting in Vienna.

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The German OOB has now dropped below 2 million ready men and the cycle of merging and disbanding units continues. As you will see from the disbanded formations, not even Elite SS Panzer Regiments have been spared from this fate. There is just not enough manpower to go around.

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Disbands and mergers:

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The last major reserves are arriving next week from both the Axis Reserve and WE. These forces are now the last thing that can be mustered to fight for the German Reich.

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Air losses remain low but will probably increase substantially next week as the whole LW reacts to Soviet attacks. Below you have the compositions of the 3 main Luftflottes. In total around 900 fighters and 1.000 bombers will be supporting the ground forces in the defensive operations next week. Against them there are 12k Soviet planes.

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Fuel reserves have fallen to an all time low of 125k tonnes.

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The Third Reich before the start of the Berlin offensive:

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RE: T14: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by Lovenought »

It's interesting how much the Soviet force has shrunk, too, especially in tank strength, which has shrunk by almost half. I wonder how much of that is an inability to get enough supply forward to refit depleted formations? Surely they must be swimming in raw AFV production at this point

:EDIT:

Looking at the scenario, it seems the Soviets produce about 617 tanks per turn. So in an ideal world where every tank teleports to the front, they should currently have 12,820 tanks? Subtracting losses and adding new production. But instead they have 9,514. So a pretty noticeable manpower/logistical shortage keeping the front from being as strong as it could be, although not catastrophic. I suppose manpower might actually be the bigger issue?
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RE: T14: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by xhoel »

From what I can tell: That has to do with which units are taking these losses. Gunnulf has attached a lot of Tank Regiments and Light SUs to the Rifle Corps which do most of the fighting. These units can get mauled easily and need to be sent back to STAVKA or a HQ sitting on a depot for refit. Im guessing that isnt happening as often.

Also I have been counterattacking Tank/Mechanized Corps whenever I can. When they get hit hard these units need to get pulled back for a proper R&R. And yes, manpower is a constraint for the Soviets too, but they have the luxury of having a bunch of formations that they can disband/merge to bring their army up to prescribed strength.
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RE: T14: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by xhoel »

The Prague defensive operation

Since I have a bit of time in my hands, I wanted to make a summary of my fav defensive operation so far: The Prague Defensive Operation.

The Soviets achieved a full breakthrough in the area on T10 (March 17th) but due to Axis counterattacks and reserve commitments, were stalled to a halt and the city (and its outskirts) are still in our hands as of turn 14 (April 14th).

The various counterattacks launched, repeatedly mauled Soviet armored/mechanized units and I believe that played a big role in keeping the enemy in a position where they were unable to use their advantage well.

Here is an overview of the attacks and the effects it had on Soviet units:

T10:
-11th Tank Corps routed (48 AFVs lost), 0 AFVs left
-11th Guards Tank Corps routed (177 AFVs lost), 9 AFVs left
-8th Guards Mechanized Corps isolated.

T11:
-2nd Mechanized Corps forced to retreat (246 AFVs lost), 0 AFVs left.
-8th Guards Mechanized Corps isolated again.

T12:
-7th Guards Cavalry Corps forced to retreat (63 AFVs lost), 4 AFVs remaining.
-Battlegroup Bogdanov (1st and 2nd Mechanized Corps) attacked but held after heavy combat. 151 AFVs lost, 56 AFVs left.
-8th Guards Mechanized Corps pulled back, Prague outskirts secure.

T13:
No changes. Soviet offensive towards Prague grinds to a halt. Soviet forces pivot north-west in the direction of Dresden.

T14:
-9th Guards Mechanized Corps attacked and forced to retreat (228 AFVs lost), 28 AFVs remaining.
-2nd Guards Mechanized Corps attacked and forced to retreat (86 AFVs lost), 14 AFVs left.

As you can see, in the span of 5 weeks, 7 Soviet armored formations were decimated in battle and the counterattacks as well as commitment of reserves forced the Soviets to halt their offensive on Prague. In total the enemy lost 1.000 AFVs in the process, Our losses only from counterattacks have been high as well: 330 AFVs lost, bringing the loss ratio to 3:1. However this does not include AFV losses taken from Soviet attacks. If those were to be taken into account, the loss ratios would drop to 2:1 or even further.

This is something I would recommend to German players in the late war: Keep armored reserves nearby and dont be afraid to counterattack. Its your best weapon to keep the opponent off their balance.

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Panthers moving to the front to counterattack.
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RE: T14: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by tm1 »

ORIGINAL: xhoel

The Prague defensive operation

Since I have a bit of time in my hands, I wanted to make a summary of my fav defensive operation so far: The Prague Defensive Operation.

The Soviets achieved a full breakthrough in the are on T10 (March 17th) but due to Axis counterattacks and reserve commitments, were stalled to a halt and the city (and its outskirts) are still in our hands as of turn 14 (April 14th).

The various counterattacks launched, repeatedly mauled Soviet armored/mechanized units and I believe that played a big role in keeping the enemy in a position where they were unable to use their advantage well.

Here is an overview of the attacks and the effects it had on Soviet units:

T10:
-11th Tank Corps routed (48 AFVs lost), 0 AFVs left
-11th Guards Tank Corps routed (177 AFVs lost), 9 AFVs left
-8th Guards Mechanized Corps isolated.

T11:
-2nd Mechanized Corps forced to retreat (246 AFVs lost), 0 AFVs left.
-8th Guards Mechanized Corps isolated again.

T12:
-7th Guards Cavalry Corps forced to retreat (63 AFVs lost), 4 AFVs remaining.
-Battlegroup Bogdanov (1st and 2nd Mechanized Corps) attacked but held after heavy combat. 151 AFVs lost, 56 AFVs left.
-8th Guards Mechanized Corps pulled back, Prague outskirts secure.

T13:
No changes. Soviet offensive towards Prague grinds to a halt. Soviet forces pivot north-west in the direction of Dresden.

T14:
-9th Guards Mechanized Corps attacked and forced to retreat (228 AFVs lost), 28 AFVs remaining.
-2nd Guards Mechanized Corps attacked and forced to retreat (86 AFVs lost), 14 AFVs left.

As you can see, in the span of 5 weeks, 7 Soviet armored formations were decimated in battle and the counterattacks as well as commitment of reserves forced the Soviets to halt their offensive on Prague. In total the enemy lost 1.000 AFVs in the process, Our losses only from counterattacks have been high as well: 330 AFVs lost, bringing the loss ratio to 3:1. However this does not include AFV losses taken from Soviet attacks. If those were to be taken into account, the loss ratios would drop to 2:1 or even further.

This is something I would recommend to German players in the late war: Keep armored reserves nearby and dont be afraid to counterattack. Its your best weapon to keep the opponent off their balance.

Image

Panthers moving to the front to counterattack.


Well done

I remember talk back at the WITE 1 forum where players trying to put forward ideas on having the ability for Germany to perform Late War counterattacks / offensives.


Cool picture also

I know I could check the game next time its up and running, however I gather you maybe playing now so I will ask as you could have the answer now.

Does 12th Armee come as a very final reinforcement to the east, the Armee was facing the allies on the western front but as Berlin was being surrounded it was ordered to fall back and push towards and link with 9th Armee and open a corridor to Berlin.

regards

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RE: T14: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by xhoel »

ORIGINAL: tm1

Well done

I remember talk back at the WITE 1 forum where players trying to put forward ideas on having the ability for Germany to perform Late War counterattacks / offensives.

Cool picture also

Thank you! You need to pick your battles carefully when counterattacking, but if done right it can be a powerful tool for the Germans to use. You dont have much else under your belt in the late war.

ORIGINAL: tm1

Does 12th Armee come as a very final reinforcement to the east, the Armee was facing the allies on the western front but as Berlin was being surrounded it was ordered to fall back and push towards and link with 9th Armee and open a corridor to Berlin.

The 12th Army arrives in the reserve at the start of April I think. You can then deploy them East wherever you want. The very last reinforcement Army is the 21st however, which arrives on T12. In this game I sent them West as I dont need any more armies for now.
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RE: T14: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by Beethoven1 »

Don't lose faith. You will soon achieve the final victory.
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RE: T13: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by Beethoven1 »

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Obergruppenführer Felix Steiner is doing a great job as commander of the 11th SS Panzer Army (yellow) defending the central approaches to Berlin.

Defending? Why is he defending. He is supposed to ATTACK!!!
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RE: T13: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by DeletedUser1769703214 »

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1
ORIGINAL: xhoel

Obergruppenführer Felix Steiner is doing a great job as commander of the 11th SS Panzer Army (yellow) defending the central approaches to Berlin.

Defending? Why is he defending. He is supposed to ATTACK!!!

The game is built around attacking.

@Xhoel excellent job so far!
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RE: T13: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by loki100 »

agree, concentrating and hitting back on a very specific sector can make a real difference even this late in the game. Doing this to protect an NSS makes it stragically useful too, not just a well conceived operation
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RE: T14: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by xhoel »

Thank you everyone for the nice comments!

I am honestly surprised to see how close to history the current positions are. I will be making a separate post about it, but am impressed with the fact that the game is reflecting history so well after 14 turns of gameplay. Stay tuned for more!

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Historical comparison: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by xhoel »

Since we are now basically entering the end game, lets take a look at the overall situation. Königsberg, Danzig and Brelsau have fallen earlier than historically. Budapest and Vienna have held on for 1 more week than expected. Warsaw, Krakow, Bratislava and Posen have fallen on time. The Soviets are doing a lot better in Prague sector, they are basically on the city outskirts. Kurland has been gradually reduced both by evacuations and by the Soviet attacks here. If the units can hold until the start of May that will be a win for the Axis.

In the other TBs, the Italian campaign has progressed faster than historically and Italy is on the verge of collapse. No changes in the Balkans and Norway. In the West, the WA are on schedule with their advance and the front here is nearing collapse as well. This turn the WE ground forces fell to 89% of requirements (was 91% last turn).

VPs:

Image

The more important sector and the one that matches history quite good is Berlin. The date is 14th of April 1945. Historically, the Red Army began the Berlin offensive, just 2 days later, on the 16th. Compared to history, the positions are very similar to the actual ones. We are defending on the Oder and Stettin is in our hands as well as Frankfurt an der Oder. In game the Soviets have no bridgeheads west of the river and Küstrin remains in our hands, defended by the veteran 12th Volksgrenadier Division. Historically the city was captured by the end of March and the Soviets had 2 bridgeheads over the Oder at the time of their offensive.

It is unsure what forces the Soviets have mustered here and in what compositions but intelligence and recon paint a frightening picture. What is known is that both the 3rd Guards and 4th Guards Tank Armies which historically were under the 1st Ukrainian Front (Konev) and made up the southern pincer towards Berlin are not in their jump off positions. Instead they are fighting in Moravia and Lower Austria.

In terms of total losses, the Axis have suffered 685k irrecoverable losses while the Soviets have taken 598k irrecoverable. Tank losses are heavy for both sides, Axis 8.7k while Soviets have just crossed the 11k threshold.

Historical Operations map: Berlin sector, courtesy of Zentrum für Militärische und Sozialwissenschaften der Bundeswehr:

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In Game situation:

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RE: Historical comparison: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by Lovenought »

That airbase at Bautzen is still active. You aren't trying to evacuate airbases a turn or two ahead of time so the manpower doesn't get lost?
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RE: Historical comparison: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by xhoel »

ORIGINAL: Lovenought

That airbase at Bautzen is still active. You aren't trying to evacuate airbases a turn or two ahead of time so the manpower doesn't get lost?

I am. There is a single recon air group left there which didnt have enough miles for a transfer. I think it has like 3-4 planes or so. Not a big loss.
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T15: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by xhoel »

T15, 21st of April 1945
General Situation


The Ruhrkessel has ceased to exist. The 350.000 men strong Army Group B has surrendered and with it the industrial heartland of the Ruhr has fallen. This has allowed the Americans to drive towards the Elbe capturing the region of Hannover and striking another blow to the industrial capacities of the Reich. At the same time, the enemy has taken both Gelderland and Friesland, encircling German forces in the Netherlands. The WA will probably push towards Württemberg and Bavaria now. With the chaos and heavy fighting taking place in the west, we are also facing a garrison shortage here.

Image

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The shrinking Reich:

Image

The strong push in Italy has finally led to a complete collapse. The enemy has captured the regions of Liguria, Lombardy, Alto-Adige, Friuli and Istria. Army Group C has surrendered and the WA are now on the Alps. Austria is now being threatened from the south as well. Only a few units from Italy have managed to escape: XIV Panzer Corps, 29th PzGrenadier Division, 26th Panzer Division and 4th Fallschirmjaeger Division. The rest have surrendered and around 500k men have been wiped off the OOB.

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Italy:

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Destroyed units in the West and Italy:

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T15 Air and Industry: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by xhoel »

This update will start a bit different so bear with me as we go through some information regarding industry and the air force.

The LW was active all over the front last week, running GS where the fighting was heaviest. Unfortunately their presence was not enough to turn a Soviet attack into a hold but they have contributed greatly by hitting Soviet assault forces hard.
This has come at a very high cost. More than 1.200 Axis pilots have been lost together with 1.890 aircraft. The Soviets have also bled this week, 3.231 pilots and 3.870 aircraft have been lost. This has been the week with the heaviest air losses so far and the LW has been mauled beyond recognition.

Loss Ratios:

-2.7:1 in pilots
-2:1 in aircraft.

The Soviets can take these losses just fine, their main issue right now is finding enough tarmac (air bases) for their air groups. The Soviet air OOB sits at 11.3k compared to the Axis one at 1.2k.

Image

Highest losses for the campaign for both sides:

Image

To fill our existing air groups we would need 1.784 pilots. Since that is impossible and most groups only have 3-5 aircraft left, the LW has undergone a major reorganization. Out of the 57 air groups (Fighters, FBs and Tactical Bombers) at the start of the week, only 29 remain. The disbanding of air groups has allowed us to concentrate experienced pilots in earmarked units. These air groups have been set to rest and wont be carrying out operations for now, as they lack both the morale and also machines due to the heavy losses taken.

Before and After Reorganization:

Image

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Hungarian air force as well as LBs, Patrol, Recon and Transport groups not included since they have not been reorganized/changed.

Image

The forces that remain have been reorganized under Luftflotte 6 defending Berlin and Luftflotte 4 defending Prague. This new organization will be shown next week. Luftflotte 5 has been sent west and Luftflotte 1 has been left with only Flieger Führer Ost containing 91 patrol aircraft to conduct Naval Patrols if the Soviets try to close the shipping lanes to Kurland.
These changes have also reduced the number of airbases in use as the forces are being concentrated in specific areas. Luftflotte 6 and 4 each have 9 air bases in use and Luftflotte 1 has only 2. A total of 20 airbases.

A notable mention here should go to the Hungarian Air Force which has fought bravely by our side during this whole time. Unfortunately even though the Hungarians still have pilots ready, they lack aircraft to fill up their fighter groups and only their 2 Tactical Bomber groups can be filled up.

On to Industry

The fall of the Ruhr and Hannover puts a further strain on German industry. Another 40.000 tonnes of fuel have been used this week and now the Axis pool sits at 85k, which means that in about two weeks fuel will run out completely and units will have to make do with what they have on hand. Oil Stores have also fallen to an all time low of 18k tonnes. Around 12k recruits are being added to the Army each week but these numbers are also falling fast as the territory of the Reich is shrinking.

Image

The truck situation is still good, we have around 8.5k trucks in the pool although losses during the campaign so far have been extremely high: 52k trucks lost. The Soviets have lost only 16k trucks and have been using a lot of the captured German stock (38k) to help their advance.

Image

Unfortunately for me, this turn another bug came up relating to arriving reinforcements from TBs reported here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5143815

Basically I have 3 Mechanized/Armored Divisions that have arrived with 0 trucks and only have 6 MPs to move, when they should have arrived with their full truck component. These units have been sent to depots and placed on refit so they can get some trucks to regain their mobility. I hope this works and they can get some trucks for next turn.

Image

In terms of replacements the situation remains the same as before. I continue to believe that the current replacement system that always places priority on TBs is absolutely wrong and have made another post about it here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5132514

For the AAR readers, suffice to know that the entire Eastern Front has only received a measly 4.700 men this week, while in the Western Front TB, 2 regiments have received around 7k men and multiple units in the TB have gotten a lot of replacements while the on map army is being starved for manpower. The supply situation on the other hand is looking good and all Armies are getting what they need.

Image

Weather continues to be rain so we have light mud over most of the front save for the mountain areas in Bohemia where the snow is melting and the ground has turned to heavy mud. The weather will continue to be rain next week too so the Soviet offensive will probably continue unhindered by it.

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T15: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by xhoel »

AGN

The front in Kurland is quiet except for Soviet bombings of the ports, which has brought them both to damage levels of over 50% making evacuations difficult. Whats left of JG 6 has been decimated in the defensive air battles and the group has been disbanded.

I dont know why Gunnulf is not using NP to block the ports, bombing is not going to prevent supplies from coming in. However as mentioned above, just in case he tries NP, I moved Flieger Führer Ost north so they can lay some NP of their own if needed. There is no other use for them so they might as well fight and die a heroes death trying to help Army Group Kurland survive.

Two more IDs pulled out of Kurland this week and more mergers. The stacking limits are really not doing us many favors. 12th Panzer Division set to static to save trucks (900 of them). Three divisions remain in the Ventspils area while 5 division are in the Liepaja sector. The Soviets will probably liquidate this sector in 2 weeks.

Air Battle over Kurland:

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AGN situation end of the week:

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RE: T15: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by Lovenought »

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Italy:

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At least Croatia is doing incredibly well!
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RE: T15: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by Zebtucker12 »

What happend in that latest airbattle?
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RE: T15: The Oder must hold! VtB: xhoel (Axis) vs Gunnulf (Soviet)

Post by xhoel »

ORIGINAL: Lovenought

At least Croatia is doing incredibly well!

Wont last long. Bosnia and Herzegovina falls next week so half of that territory will be gone.

ORIGINAL: Zebtucker12

What happend in that latest airbattle?

Was to show the German intercepts in Kurland. The Soviets have both numerical and quality superiority here so they mauled JG 6.
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