Anti Sub Tech

[canuckgamer]

I assume the anti sub tech only increases a naval group when engaged in surface combat with a sub. If a destroyer is patrolling a convoy route I am thinking it does not increase it's bonus against subs who are raiding.

[Nirosi]

It will have no effect on raider (always a flat 2% per patrol counter no mater what). But most of the time it will also have no effet on surface units as none follows the anti-sub advancement (unless you build one with that advancement yourself). All on map have the warship advancement (except one and that was fixed I think).

But the Warship advancement will also have improvement in it anti-sub in some years (just not as much as the anti-sub (escort) one).

[canuckgamer]

Thank you for the reply. The reason why I ask is that for our next PBEM game we will playing the 1939 Small Fleet campaign. It looks to me that subs will be more dangerous because you won't be able to screen CVs as easily. I hope that the small fleet campaign doesn't degenerate naval battles toward the Strategic Command tactic of sequential attacks.

[Nirosi]

It looks to me that subs will be more dangerous because you won't be able to screen CVs as easily.

True! I wonder if it is not an incentive to put more points in "CV operations" now (to improve the anti-sub and defense for CVs). I usually put moderate points, maybe should one of the priorities now in small fleets

[stjeand]

Small fleets neutralized the Allied naval advantage, which is all they have until 1941.
Axis subs should be chasing down fleets of DDs and CVs.

In testing I am able to sink them quite easily...UNLESS they hide in raider mode.

In raider mode what I find interesting is they are avoiding being detected yet actively searching for subs to destroy.
Bug.
HOW can you be trying to hide but actively trying to find / hunt subs? You can't. ESPECIALLY when subs are actively trying to find you.

As the Allies you have to avoid the subs. Always be over 5 hexes away and NEVER not be in raider mode.
They will hunt you as they should and from time time get a hit.
IF you hunt outside of raider mode...you will take a LOT of damage.


And Al please FIX the issue of raider mode and convoy escorts.
That makes no sense at all.

[canuckgamer]

Historically, especially in the Atlantic, the Royal Navy ruled. After the Bismarck was sunk, the Germans never again sortied with their remaining navy. From what you are saying about subs in the small fleet scenario it appears to me that they are way too deadly. However for them to attack when they are range the subs would have to be in hunt mode so doesn't that reduce the numbers raiding the convoy routes?

What is the bug you referred to regarding escorts?

Maybe the small fleet limit should be increased to 6 like it is in War Plan Pacific.

[sveint]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R ... rld_War_II

Small Fleet is perfect and for more balanced than large fleets.

[stjeand]

To bug.

The UK fleet can sit in the convoy lane in raider mode and protect the convoy.

So in essence avoiding subs and warships yet at the same time actively hunting them.
What?
HOW is that possible?


Many people like small fleets...and that is fine.
I do not because to me it give the Axis a naval advantage...which they did not have at all, especially in the Med.

Perform a few tests...send out the German subs and then move small fleets "close"...
50% of the time I sink a DD on turn 1.
Rarely does it not work out in the German favor. Wait until they have 3 subs...or 6...
This is why the UK has to sail in raider mode...see my above issue with that.

NOW once Russia is balanced...I will revisit my thoughts on it.

[Nirosi]

However for them to attack when they are range the subs would have to be in hunt mode so doesn't that reduce the numbers raiding the convoy routes?

Not necessarily, because an enemy convoy lane will be raided by ships or subs sitting on it no matter what mode they are on. Raider mode means you only raid cargos but try to avoid warships, but hunt mode means you attack everything in sight.

[eskuche]

Small fleets neutralized the Allied naval advantage, which is all they have until 1941.
Axis subs should be chasing down fleets of DDs and CVs.

In testing I am able to sink them quite easily...UNLESS they hide in raider mode.

In raider mode what I find interesting is they are avoiding being detected yet actively searching for subs to destroy.
Bug.
HOW can you be trying to hide but actively trying to find / hunt subs? You can't. ESPECIALLY when subs are actively trying to find you.

As the Allies you have to avoid the subs. Always be over 5 hexes away and NEVER not be in raider mode.
They will hunt you as they should and from time time get a hit.
IF you hunt outside of raider mode...you will take a LOT of damage.


And Al please FIX the issue of raider mode and convoy escorts.
That makes no sense at all.

Thanks for doing this testing. In WPE vs. Hadros I am seeing > 20 subs by mid-'43 and am just waiting for the one turn KO for the IJN.