Not taking London

[sveint]

I'm sorry but it needs to be fixed

a.jpg

Since images don't work: Axis taking all UK cities+N. Ireland but leaving London empty permanently leaves UK at 10 production and 0 oil. Also prevents US entry.

[stjeand]

The issues I see are:

1) Germany is able can cut London off from their convoy lane. This cripples the UK as it should, but they can just do this and sit. Although allowed in the game it is "gamey".
2) The UK should not be able just decide to abandon everything so that the US join the fight early. That is also a bit "gamey".

SO how do you address this? That is tricky.

Some thoughts around this...

Cutting off London should be an acceptable tactic...But the UK should not be "stuck" in this position indefinitely.
Perhaps after X turns the UK decides to "move" their capital. But there must be some cost also if they do so.
Maybe when this happens Spain automatically joins the Axis?

BUT what if the Germans do not take all the abandon cities?
HECK what player would take them all if they can just leave them abandon and keep the US out of the war?
And what UK player would not abandon them all hoping for the US to come save them?

Perhaps if the UK has no "UK" units that means the US joins after X turns and so many UK ports have already fallen.
Can't have it that the UK just abandon GB and suddenly the US joins the war in 1940.

Thoughts?
This is a tough one outside of saying house rule...BUT what would the rule be.

[sveint]

Simple solution is to move the UK capital to Glasgow as soon as they lose a single city in England.

[AlvaroSousa]

Or simply changing the US entry to an area and numbers.

Germans invade with 1 unit is 1 event
3 units another
6 units another or something along those lines.

[stjeand]

That could work...
BUT there is an issue where Germany can cut across the UK and they get no resources.

That is a big issue too.

The US well that is weird as they get bonuses with southern cities in the UK...Liverpool? Not sure why this not another...Egypt and Gibraltar.

I am not sure Spain could ever join the Axis because I don't think they can take the 3 southern cities with 6 units.

I expect you would remove the US entry with city loss and it would just be unit based.

I guess could say...

So 1 unit -30
3 units -30
6 unit -30
9 units -30 (should join here at worst)


SO as Germany I would try to win with 8 units. That would be interesting.

[sveint]

Look the issue is huge. Forget building u-boats. Sacrifice two infantry divisions for landings on each coast of the UK and do more damage than u-boats during an entire game.

US entry is just the cherry on top.

[stjeand]

Could the UK resources use the European convoy route and then create a London Convoy route that would be last resort?'
That way they could get resources though be more susceptible to air attack.

[AlvaroSousa]

If the Germans cut off the entire top half of the UK well you need to defend it better lol.

As the UK there should be no way the Germans can land North and you "Na-zi" it... ba-dump-bump pishaaa!

They need to make a 1 move and stay at sea or a 2 move and be vulnerable.

[sveint]

This is a serious exploit and not a matter of "defend it better lol".

I give up, not going to bother to post again.

[stjeand]

Well I can land north...since the minefield does not show up until after France surrenders...but prior you can land in Ireland or Liverpool...All with a large corp.
Maybe a division can hold but not if the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine can assist, and possibly a paratrooper to join in the fun.

Maybe the British have to just build small infantry corps to hold the UK be able to open them back up...
Have to see if that can be done.

Perhaps the minefield should show up whether the French surrender or not?

That minefield would be huge...BUT there are other ways.

[AlvaroSousa]

The minefields appear in July 7th 1940. I bumped them to July 5th so they appear a turn early. This is about the historical date from research they were completed. I will also add an extra minefield to 126,60 which is Ireland.

The East coast is easily protected.

The West coast you should have ships protecting the area.

I'll also pop in a US entry hit for invading Ireland.

I will also take a look at modifying the map a little more on the East side of Belfast so they can ship resources to Cardiff. It is accurate currently and if the Germans did occupy the West coast there is no way the UK sails ships there.

All the UK historical convoy lanes came in from the North side of the UK.

Here is the thing. Players are complaining the UK can field umpteenth corp in France with a Big BEF.
But here at the same time complaints of it is too easy for the Germans to take the UK.

I don't know how to solve between these two statements. One lists the UK too strong, the other too weak.

[sveint]

My complaint is not about the ease of taking the UK.

The complaint is that if SeaLion is successful, Germany can take all cities except London and then just never take London while overrunning the rest of the British empire.

This is a huge exploit because :

• The US never enters the war

• The UK has permanently zero oil income

• The UK has very low income and gets zero income from any overseas territories

Historically all oil and production for the British Empire did not flow through London and then back out to the rest of the empire.

[AlvaroSousa]

Yea we spoke of that. I am going to make it AoE instead of specific locations.

[Lascar]

What is AoE?

[stjeand]

There is also a bug with the minefield.

The mine on the Irish coast never shows up.

126,60

This allows the Germans to go up the center channel.


NOW another small issue against Germany...
Spain.

It is kind of weird that they can take all of the UK except London and Spain sits idly by. They should join pretty quickly since the UK is lost.

Honestly I did not take London to start because the US would join and Spain will never because of the "Liverpool trap".
Seems silly to be honest.
IF Spain joined as soon as all the UK cities were taken I would have taken London right away but I decided to take out the rest of the UK instead. Which was beneficial but then the English abandon London.

[stjeand]

The complaint about the UK being too powerful...

Well that is true...BUT they will leave the UK vulnerable if they do this.
Sadly the Axis do not know what the UK has planned so IF they build the forces for Sealion and the UK decides to turtle...then they are a little weaker for France.
BUT if they get lucky...it can happen.

Working on defenses now...

I think it might be that the UK is just right now that some of us found a way to invade the UK heavily if they go big BEF.

I won't be any more...need to many large corps since my small corps run away all the time now.

[AlvaroSousa]

And that is it. In France you want to delay the Germans as much as possible but if you leave yourself vulnerable to invasion and the Germans take out the UK or cripple it then they can take their time in France.

In World in Flames if the UK over commits to France it is an opportunity to invade the UK.

So the play in France should be delay without sacrifice.