Why there are so many vehicles in some Italian units?

[Stamb]

Some Italian units have an enormous amount of vehicles in comparison to their German or even Romanian brothers.

For example this 2 IT divisions, they require 1.1k vehicles each and they get no bonuses by having 3x more trucks than German ID.

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Same applies for a cavalry:

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I would understand if this units have more CV or MP. But they are as useless as other Axis allies.
Look at that 3.63 CV Italian 9th ID with 0 fatigue and 100% CPP!
Its a disaster.

I can imagine how many vehicles they lose in case of a route. Or in case of surrender - its a big boost for a Soviets basically for free.

Would it make sense to reduce amount of vehicles that this units have to match other Axis units?

[loki100]

they do get a bonus as non-mot (2) compared to the normal non-mot (1), similar to the benefit for US vs UK formations in WiTW. Set out in the manual 21.11

[homer82]

Why the Italians required more trucks, I don't know. Maybe they had smaller trucks and thus require more

Seriously, I think the key metric isn't sheer number of vehicles but rather how many you have vs how many you need. In this case the Italians have 90% of their required vehicles while the Germans have 97%. If anything, the Germans should get a bonus.

[Stamb]

Yeah, i noticed that they are non-motorized (2). I was trying to quickly find in a manual what it means but i could not. And 21.11. HEADQUARTER (HQ) UNITS does not help either. Can you quote from a manual what is the difference?

[Stamb]

This is what i found:

The cost of a deliberate attack will vary according to the unit type (38.7.1) but usually
motorized units will pay 16 MP (plus the cost of entering the target hex) and non-
motorized 6 MP. The main exception is that non-motorized type 2 units (i.e. those
that have both vehicles for supplies and all non-infantry, non-infantry weapon
elements) will pay 5 MP.

There are four types of non-motorized units based on their relative mobility
and the use of vehicles by ground elements:
 0 – no vehicles (1)
 1 – vehicles for supplies only
 2 – vehicles for supplies and all non-infantry, non-infantry weapon
elements
 4 – Railroad Anti-aircraft (Flak) (2)

Still i do not see any advantages of having so many vehicles in this units...

[Stamb]

Some advise for that units
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5#p4958795

[Joel Billings]

(3) Non-motorized type 2 units pay only 5 MPs for a deliberate attack (i.e. those that have vehicles for supplies and all non-infantry, non-infantry weapon elements).

Aside from that, they are easier to temp motorize since they already have lots of trucks. Can be easier for them to use unit trucks to go get supplies if needed, though I don't know if that really works out to their benefit in the end.

[Stamb]

This is what i am talking about. Having more vehicles for this units only harms. Unless Axis allies combat capabilities are reviewed - i do not see any real usage of this units. Except of TBs or even disbanding for getting vehicles (instead of Army groups )

[DesertedFox]

Some Italian units have an enormous amount of vehicles in comparison to their German or even Romanian brothers.

For example this 2 IT divisions, they require 1.1k vehicles each and they get no bonuses by having 3x more trucks than German ID.

Would it make sense to reduce amount of vehicles that this units have to match other Axis units?

The reason they have so many vehicles is because of, shock horror that was their historical TOE.

How dare the devs stick to historical facts.

Would it make sense to reduce amount of vehicles that this units have to match other Axis units?

Only if you are a one-eyed German fan and you only want historical TOEs when it suits you.

https://military-history.fandom.com/wik ... on_Pasubio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_Infan ... Pasubio%22

190th Heavy Transport Unit (assigned for the deployment in the Soviet Union)
813th Heavy Transport Section
814th Heavy Transport Section

Having more vehicles for this units only harms. Unless Axis allies combat capabilities are reviewed

Well as this is an inconvenient TOE for the Axis that should convince the devs to upgrade all the axis capabilities.

I would however vote for an increase in this divisons' starting morale. Forty would seem to be way too low given its performance in Russia.

Military honors[edit]
For their conduct during the Italian campaign in the Soviet Union the President of Italy awarded the 79th Infantry Regiment "Pasubio" and the 8th Artillery Regiment "Pasubio" Italy's highest military honor, the Gold Medal of Military Valour. The 80th Infantry Regiment "Pasubio" was awarded two Gold Medals of Military Valour - the only line infantry regiment so honored during the entire conflict.

[Jango32]

This is more highlighting the fact that the absolute number of trucks a division needs doesn't matter to determine MPs. A hypothetical infantry division of about 17000 personnel that has only a need of 130 vehicles at full TOE, a woefully inadequate number, can have 16 MPs if they pass the relevant checks in the logistics phase.


EDIT: Italian national morale for professionally trained soldiers belonging to divisions that were not newly raised is in a very interesting position relative to Soviet national morale, from which hastily raised conscript forces with little (and effective) training across all levels in the Soviet formation in 1941 benefit - namely morale 50 until September and morale 45 after September. Which is higher by 10 and 5 respectively than Italian national morale.

[Stamb]

We already had discussion, DesertedFox, in some other topic. At that moment i was wondering if you always act like an idiot. And you are.

[DesertedFox]

We already had discussion, DesertedFox, in some other topic. At that moment i was wondering if you always act like an idiot. And you are.

Here is some advice for you stamb.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

[Stamb]

We already had discussion, DesertedFox, in some other topic. At that moment i was wondering if you always act like an idiot. And you are.

Here is some advice for you stamb.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Oh really? Maybe learn how to communicate politely with a people first.

Screenshot from 2022-03-22 12-18-26.png (113.21 KiB) Viewed 1350 times

Screenshot from 2022-03-22 12-18-01.png (113.57 KiB) Viewed 1350 times

[DesertedFox]

We already had discussion, DesertedFox, in some other topic. At that moment i was wondering if you always act like an idiot. And you are.

Here is some advice for you stamb.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Oh really? Maybe learn how to communicate politely with a people first.

Screenshot from 2022-03-22 12-18-26.png
Screenshot from 2022-03-22 12-18-01.png

You're the one with the foot-in-mouth disease.

If I had a penny for every stupid suggestion or comment you made I would be a millionaire.

[loki100]

...

You're the one with the foot-in-mouth disease.

If I had a penny for every stupid suggestion or comment you made I would be a millionaire.

why do you need so many reminders that insulting other members is against the forum rules?

yes disagree, debate, but keep it polite

[Stamb]

...
EDIT: Italian national morale for professionally trained soldiers belonging to divisions that were not newly raised is in a very interesting position relative to Soviet national morale, from which hastily raised conscript forces with little (and effective) training across all levels in the Soviet formation in 1941 benefit - namely morale 50 until September and morale 45 after September. Which is higher by 10 and 5 respectively than Italian national morale.

That is good note!

[DesertedFox]

...

You're the one with the foot-in-mouth disease.

If I had a penny for every stupid suggestion or comment you made I would be a millionaire.

why do you need so many reminders that insulting other members is against the forum rules?

yes disagree, debate, but keep it polite

Probably for the same reason, I have to again point out your "moderation" bias.

[AlbertN]

Some Italian divisions get on map with a morale above their NM. But due to fatigue and supply levels their morale gradually drop to NM.

In my aar I stressed how an Italian unit sitting in Odessa through 41 winter got its morale go from 50 to 40 just by sitting there.

Said that I already broadly and widely expressed opinion on the need for axis minor NM buff.

About the trucks... That is peculiar. It seems to be more a casa of depot trucks or more trucks to shuffle around the artilleries over the grand distances in Russia.

[exalted]

Some Italian divisions get on map with a morale above their NM. But due to fatigue and supply levels their morale gradually drop to NM.

Ran my last 41GC with +10nm for axis allies and the italian divisions where still useless except for the armored divisions.

The other allies kind of worked but italians probably probably need +20nm to get even vaguely useful as anything but soviet garisson. Why anyone would put them on the map is strange to me.

[Erik Rutins]

DesertedFox, you were clearly trolling Stamb, which is against the forum rules. Please keep disagreements civil and polite. Consider this an official warning.

Stamb, you responded with a personal attack, which is against the forums rules. Again, please keep disagreements civil and polite. This is an official warning.

Any other concerns regarding this, please PM me.

Regards,

- Erik