All of France - pros and cons?

[firsteds]

I recently played a couple of PBEM games (either side) where the Axis took all of France. Tricky but not impossible. However, as Axis, I am not sure there were any real benefits? I don't know how to calculate the MPP or NM gains, but the Axis lost Syria easily and a lot of units were tied up. Creating Vichy seems a lot simpler.

Any thoughts on the pros and cons for All of France?

Thanks.

[ThunderLizard11]

I don't see too many pros - nice to get Tunis and Algeria but are they that relevant? Cons- big distraction from prep for Barbarrosa and action in Libya. Longer to get those bonus MPPs from fall of France needed for tanks and tech.

I think I've seen one person try in PBEM and it was a fail.

[Zeckke]

theres no benefit conquering all france, algeria.

what is good for germans making Vichy is getting by diplo later or by event, you get the strasboug battleship and more units, Vichy is a wall if allys take Spain or Italy

the best thing is form Vichy, and maybe given to italy by war. thats another possibility

the game also dont give you extra Mpps by conquering all France, they give you less Mpps, than getting Paris and formed Vichy

[Bavre]

Not to mention that after the US and USSR are in, the Axis can attack minors with impunity and Vichy is trivial to take from the Axis side. You basically just get it later...

[calcwerc]

a. You really need a plan for how to qonquer all of France quickly if you dont take Victhy. I tried to improvise it a few times, and lost. It used to be easier, and I remember many taking it, but after it got harder, I see it very seldom that players go for all of France.
b. Pros:
1) higher MP base. It is true that you can conquer Vichy as soon US enters the war, but getting more MP earlier in the game is more decisive for Axis as it gives them a bigger buildup for Russia and other scenarios they need to win early.
2) Taking Tunis and Algeria give you a stronger defensive position in the Mediterranean and more bases to fight a naval war in the Atlantic.
3) Additionally you get other bases overseas which come in handy for supplying the subs and other ships.
4) I presume you also avoid the small free french forces in Africa and the Pacific (?). Not exactly crucial, but a hardly pressed UK can still have some use of them.
c. Cons:
1) I am not quite sure about this, but I think taking all of France influences USA/Russian war readiness quite substantially (?)
2) Even if you succeed, it might either take more time and/or more ressources which might be needed elsewhere. Basically, this might more than even out the bigger MP base you get. Very negative in this regard is that you will not get Balkan satellites to join Axis before France has fallen. Also negative is that the French fleet will then have more time to harrass Axis ships and harbours.
3) The extended territory also give the Allies more possibilites for amphibious landings, and you might need to allocate further ressources for defence. As soon as the US enter the war, German defence lines tend to get stretched rather quickly. For this reason, quite a few Axis players even dont conquer southern France after US war entry.

Conclusion: without a clear plan for how to do it quickly, it is a no-go. Even with such a plan, the disadvantages might be bigger than the advantages. However, variety in gameplay is also a weapon.

[Fafnir]

It seems the best pro is forgotten. If you got all of France Spain will join if it is at least at 60%.
You have to pay 600 MPP for that but the spanish army is better equipped then.

Only annoying thing about that is that if Spain goes to axis it will trigger the event of axis units near Gibraltar which activates the US mobilization around 10%

[calcwerc]

Important point indeed. I think I have experienced that playing the allies. Closes the Med for the allies.