Sub surprise forever

[eskuche]

I play WPP, but I noticed over several turns that subs ALWAYS get surprise. We don't know what kind of bonus this gives, but the manuals suggest that they should have only a CHANCE to surprise. This got annoying when I lost an upgraded Yamato (a 5 HP BB) within a 6 BB/BC fleet trying to bait out interdictions from low 2-3 sub groups. That in itself was a (1/6)*0.3*0.1 (double crit) * (1/6) * 0.3 chance, assuming the subs damage went through (6? surface vs. 12 defense), so basically impossible under how we understand the rules. I did some testing and it looks like this is in fact true and not at all what the manual suggests. Given the extremely miniscule chance of the above at 0.00025% assuming full hits every time and the fact that we have no idea how sub surprise works, I am kind of at a loss. Yes, it's historical, but not fun given with stjeand's testing that carriers get decimated at a fraction of the cost. At least they do not blockade anymore, but I am just not going to use my navy period if there are 18 sub fleets running around (4 turns of US production).

For the record, I have half anti-sub tech and have had 10+ attacks on sub fleets with maybe one kill max each turn over several turns in-game.

subsubsub.jpg (208.8 KiB) Viewed 917 times

[eskuche]

On more investigation (on suspicion from my game), subs are able to freely surprise interdict 100% WITHOUT RECON.

sub2.png (194.01 KiB) Viewed 913 times

[AlvaroSousa]

I found the error.

I am surprised no one saw this before.
I am also surprise I didn't get a code error. It is dividing by 0 creating the bug.

Anyways it is fixed for the next patch. The bonus increases luck slightly in the battle.

Thanks

[eskuche]

I found the error.

I am surprised no one saw this before.
I am also surprise I didn't get a code error. It is dividing by 0 creating the bug.

Anyways it is fixed for the next patch. The bonus increases luck slightly in the battle.

Thanks

Great. Bug hunter turned sub hunter I be.

[eskuche]

I found the error.

I am surprised no one saw this before.
I am also surprise I didn't get a code error. It is dividing by 0 creating the bug.

Anyways it is fixed for the next patch. The bonus increases luck slightly in the battle.

Thanks

Also please take a look at the perfect interception in no recon. Not sure if it’s a separate issue from always getting surprise.
And while you’re at it, maybe sub cost should be touched up a bit. They are less than half the price of their counter and already extremely hard to sink given the defensive buffs against air and naval…
Edit: compare vs. patrol groups at 2 health and much worse stats. They just have 3-5 times the relative utility and hardiness for the price. I know US subs claimed half the tonnage in the pacific war but they also had disproportionately high casualty rates vs. other branches.

[AlvaroSousa]

Which patrol groups have 2 health? US should be at 3. Some minor nations might be at 2 health because their navy was that small but other than that.

[stjeand]

Al is this sub bug only in WPE?

I never noticed it in WPE...though might be there.

[Lascar]

Al is this sub bug only in WPE?

I never noticed it in WPE...though might be there.

I have noticed surprising u-boat surface attacks against the British where the UK suffers heavy losses and the u-boats are unscathed. It didn't use to be this way.

[AlvaroSousa]

That I remember I have not changed that code. They get a small bonus to attack but it isn't crushing.

If you sail near an area controlled by the enemy your detection level is very high thus you will get spotted often.

[Lascar]

This occurred in the Bay of Biscay at about 10 hexes from France. The hex indicated very low recon.

The results were very much like eskuche showed in his post.

[ncc1701e]

Which patrol groups have 2 health? US should be at 3. Some minor nations might be at 2 health because their navy was that small but other than that.

All patrol groups of all countries including US are at 2 health/manpower.