Unit Stacking

[jb5256]

I was about to pull the trigger on War in the East 2 so I downloaded the manual just to be sure it has what I am looking for. Now, it appears that the "hard wired" stacking rule is any three units (regardless of real world size) is the maximum that can be placed in a hex. So if you put three regiments in a hex, that's it. But if you put three divisions in a hex, that's okay too. And when it comes to stacking, a Soviet rifle division takes up just as much space as a (larger) Wehrmacht infantry division. Frankly I am very surprised that a simulation like War in the East 2 that has so much praise (or compliants?) for its attention to detail would have such an abstract and over simplified approach to unit stacking.

Am I missing something here? I hope I am. If so, please somebody educate me so I can throw money and time at this thing.

Thanks in advance.

[Stamb]

You are right, there can be only 3 units per hex. Unless there is a fortress which allows to stack more units.

Players were asking for a change. As it makes no sense that there is a count per unit and not per men. As you can have 3 airborne brigades for a total of ~10k men or 3 riffle corps for a total of >90k or more.

[jb5256]

Thank you very much for the reply and confirmation. That kills my purchase of the sim. I still can't get over what a huge mistake the stacking rules are for this sim. Makes me wonder what else is completely wrong with this massive effort.

You saved me money, wasted time, and frustration.

[Stamb]

If it is the only thing that decides if you want to buy a game or not then you should buy it.

In most cases this simplification is irrelevant. Just annoying sometimes.

[homer82]

If the stacking rule is the only thing keeping you from buying this game, you probably SHOULDN'T purchase it. Money aside, the irritation to all may be too much. Perhaps WitP?

[jasonbroomer]

I think the stacking rules allow a rather elegant way to balance the game to result in a vaguely historical frame - initially axis strength which is overwhelmed as Soviet corps come into play

[TallBlondJohn]

If the stacking rule is such a big issue, then IMO its your loss.

Yes its an abstraction, but TBH on the Eastern front the unit density is low enough that it is rarely an issue. The German player only very rarely has the force concentration to use more than three units per hex, and for the Soviet it rather effectively gives a sense of how clumsy the Red Army was until 1943. Only then, as Corps appear (effectively allowing up to 9 rifle divs per hex) can the Soviets start the steamroller - and only where they have those corps, not just where they feel like it.

The alternative is a lot of work, code and test balancing to put in a stacking mechanic that the developers feel wouldn't actually change much in the game - and I agree with them. It jarred at first , but certainly doesn't stop my enjoyment.

Its an acknowledged compromise, and one that isn't so suitable for the Western front where density could be much higher (Normandy). So it may change one day.

[AlbertN]

I am not sure how much big change it may require - Stacking can go as long as airplane stacking in airbases, or Command Capacity for HQs.

Plenty of games have a tally of stacking value that can fit in a hex. (Some have that varying depending on the area / region but it is not suited for hex).
Then if regiment / brigade occupies 1 point, a division can be 2 points and a corps 3 (Numbers are of example) out of a total of 6 stacking points per hex - it's quite simple and smoothly playable - somehow closer to 'realism'.

I think the only big issues there are the cramming of 3 Soviet corps in 1 hex - at least from my perspective. (Since each can also be loaded with 3 SUs of the brigade size)