Game balance

[devoncop]

Hi

Still really enjoying the game but just wanted to see if others have noticed a possible game balance problem. As a result of the enhanced FOW defending sides seem to be very much at an advantage and having played a lot of MP games I doubt the ability of the ARVN troops to win....or even draw ...any of the scenarios where they are required to attack VC positions or do search and destroy type operations.

This is largely down to their morale so that advancing to contact will often see them take reaction fire fail a morale check and retreat meaning many of them will even fail to get the opportunity to fire back.

Even US troops engaged in search and destroy missions have a problem though better air and artillery support does mitigate this to an extent.

Just checking if game balance is still being looked at.

All the best

Ian

[Jason Petho]

The ARVN are definitely a special breed.

Petri had tested the ARVN scenarios and was successful in victory using them. Against the AI... against a HUMAN, I'm not sure.

That being said, we are watching carefully and have been updating the scenarios based on user feedback. And will continue to do so, of course!

[devoncop]

The ARVN are definitely a special breed.

Petri had tested the ARVN scenarios and was successful in victory using them. Against the AI... against a HUMAN, I'm not sure.

That being said, we are watching carefully and have been updating the scenarios based on user feedback. And will continue to do so, of course!

Thanks for the feedback Jason. Much appreciated.

Its MP games in particular I am referring to where reported games on The Blitz show a preponderance of Major VC wins where they are generally defending. Interestingly the only Major Free World win was at Mao Khe v the VM where unusually VM are attacking. I am about to finish another playthrough of Mao Khe MP where I am taking the VM and am also getting trounced badly by the French defenders.

Defending is definitely much easier given the FOW and tough SE Asian terrain !

[Crossroads]

Regarding the ARVN units, yes, I did most of my playtesting on Vietnamese Civil War in addition to French Indochina War scenarios. I quite enjoy the ARVN side for the reason they indeed are quite fragile.

You need to keep them always under a very short leash, stack companies as closely together as possible, no venturing of single platoons as a rule.

As the VM side is especially so ferocious with their assaults, I also quickly learnt not to only look at the defensive terrain for my units, but also at the approaches to my units. It is often better to have a ARVN stack on a village with open terrain around it, than on a IP Village, if there are village hexes or what not with good defensive values around it. Then, pound the vietminh as they come, keeping them disrupted, killing them in the open.

ARVN is a difficult side to play, but then again, once you get a good result, it is quite a satisfaction. Go ARVN!

[devoncop]

Regarding the ARVN units, yes, I did most of my playtesting on Vietnamese Civil War in addition to French Indochina War scenarios. I quite enjoy the ARVN side for the reason they indeed are quite fragile.

You need to keep them always under a very short leash, stack companies as closely together as possible, no venturing of single platoons as a rule.

As the VM side is especially so ferocious with their assaults, I also quickly learnt not to only look at the defensive terrain for my units, but also at the approaches to my units. It is often better to have a ARVN stack on a village with open terrain around it, than on a IP Village, if there are village hexes or what not with good defensive values around it. Then, pound the vietminh as they come, keeping them disrupted, killing them in the open.

ARVN is a difficult side to play, but then again, once you get a good result, it is quite a satisfaction. Go ARVN!

Thanks Sir !

Some useful tips there. I will perserve though its when they are attacking rather than defending that their frailties are exposed most ( historically accurate of course).

Cheers

Ian

[berto]

The ARVN are doing well here

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 2&t=379783

precisely because I have them in a generally defensive stance. (Thereby disobeying mission orders. If I had generally attacked per the mission briefing, I know from earlier playtesting experiences, mine and another Dev Team member's, that the ARVN would be having a much tougher time.)

[Crossroads]

Regarding the ARVN units, yes, I did most of my playtesting on Vietnamese Civil War in addition to French Indochina War scenarios. I quite enjoy the ARVN side for the reason they indeed are quite fragile.

You need to keep them always under a very short leash, stack companies as closely together as possible, no venturing of single platoons as a rule.

As the VM side is especially so ferocious with their assaults, I also quickly learnt not to only look at the defensive terrain for my units, but also at the approaches to my units. It is often better to have a ARVN stack on a village with open terrain around it, than on a IP Village, if there are village hexes or what not with good defensive values around it. Then, pound the vietminh as they come, keeping them disrupted, killing them in the open.

ARVN is a difficult side to play, but then again, once you get a good result, it is quite a satisfaction. Go ARVN!

Thanks Sir !

Some useful tips there. I will perserve though its when they are attacking rather than defending that their frailties are exposed most ( historically accurate of course).

Cheers

Ian

You're quite welcome, Ian. ARVN indeed is my favorite faction here, as it is quite a challenge, but also so much fun once you get what you want.

As for offense, the same rules apply. Have your weapons teams close by, pound with all the indirect and direct fire before you advance, maybe take your time to get towards the position you want by using the most protective terrain around. I tend to rely on direct fire, in that I want fire fights, not assaults. I start with any isolated vietminhs out there, and try to have the overwhelming odds that I can have for the task. Having depleted the overall strength, I try to leave the strongest vietminh positions to last, and again, try to have the odds there, with plenty of weapons teams available and always starting to fire at the enemy with them, moving closer as the very last stage of my phase.

Hope this helps! And no, I don't win often, I get great satisfaction from Draws etc too.

[Scud-from-theblitz.com]

ARVN can defeat the AI. The question remains, can they defeat a human player. I think not. Point of fact, so far the Side A human player is generally disadvantaged versus the Side B human player, based on reported games at the Blitz, to date. BTW, I'd love to see Petri and his ARVN take on Ian.

Dave

[berto]

In Real Life, the ARVN seldom if ever beat the VC/NVA. By early 1964, the ARVN were losing on average a battalion per week, were in danger of collapsing. Hence the U.S. intervention.

If word gets around that in PBEM, the ARVN player has little to no chance of beating the VC/NVA player, that's okay. PBEM players will know to shun such scenarios. I would much rather that scenarios from the Civil War period remain "historical" rather than we artificially balance them for PBEM play. (Not saying you are suggesting that.) Maybe we can adopt Crossroads' idea to have different Victory/Draw/Defeat thresholds for PBEM play vs. AI play (dynamically adjusted in the scenario Lua file). Thus you can "win" as the ARVN by doing better -- i.e., not so poorly -- than they did historically. They lose, but in game terms they win.

[devoncop]

ARVN can defeat the AI. The question remains, can they defeat a human player. I think not. Point of fact, so far the Side A human player is generally disadvantaged versus the Side B human player, based on reported games at the Blitz, to date. BTW, I'd love to see Petri and his ARVN take on Ian.

Dave

Always happy for a new challenge

[Crossroads]

ARVN can defeat the AI. The question remains, can they defeat a human player. I think not. Point of fact, so far the Side A human player is generally disadvantaged versus the Side B human player, based on reported games at the Blitz, to date. BTW, I'd love to see Petri and his ARVN take on Ian.

Dave

Always happy for a new challenge

Let us play, then! Please pick up a scenario with VM going first and send the turn my way. I am having a week off, can’t return a turn until next Monday, so take your time

Crossroads dot CSLegion at gmail dot com

[devoncop]

Will do !

Will get it to you by the end of the day .

Cheers

Ian

[devoncop]

Hi Crossroads...It may be me being dense but I can't see any scenarios where the ARVN are side B so it would need you to start the game.

If you want to have a go at Kien Long 1 I would be really impressed if the ARVN can win that one as I got a real thumping when I tried as the ARVN but you would need to start the game off.

(devoncop at aol dot com )

Cheers

Ian

[Crossroads]

Sorry, having a week off from the grid, you’re right of course.

Game on it is!