MOTHERLAND!!!! K62(Axis) VS HLYA(Soviet) All are welcome

[DeletedUser1769703214]

GREAT! Love everyone & love having ya. We will be in for some punishment for sure as a Soviet since K62 is showing very promising mettle in our game. Again, this one goes all the way win or lose.

Great to see you back posting! And even better to hear that this is shaping up to be a competitive game that could have legs. Super looking forwards to seeing what kind of havoc K62 has go up to in his first few turns and how you deal with it! I'm sure that before long you'll have your pixel-troops whipped into shape :p !

Spoiler alert!!!!!! Don't read below (like at the very bottom below) if you don't want to know the future.

Yeah, I love the game, always have & always trying to make recommendations for betterment that others may think I am attacking it. I am not. It is nice to be back but I am very busy in real life and again I thank K62 for hanging in there with me


























K62 has Smolensk, Pskov, Talinin, and Odessa by turn 4 BUT! I do have a full line of Soviets from North all the way to the South turn 5! But Yeah this is going to be a rough game for me

[tm1]

This 3 turn delay kicks my azz when I go to write things Sheesh, I have hard enough time remembering my zipper is zipped on my trousers least of all trying to remember what happened 4 turns ago is going to be difficult :- ( But gotta try.

Anyway, A few things first;

1. I DON'T use spreadsheets. Yup, people that have followed me from WITE1 know that I don't use spreadsheets and I continue that here. To me it is like having sex with multiple rubbers on. You are doing it but you don't get the immersion or the "real" feel but instead with all the crutches in place for tracking everything. If I have to do a spreadsheet to enjoy this game I might as well not play and have sex instead.

2. Again, another item about me that people that have followed me from WITE1 know but others may not. I rarely if ever read the manual(Any game for that matter) Again, I am looking for the immersion in the game & figuring it out on my own. If I can figure the game out without reading the rules then that is a testament to how well the design and implementation of the game has done in implementing the system. That is why you will see in many of my posts that I say, "if I read the manual it would probably make me a better player". (Not to mention some people making fun of me thinking I know the manual but I don't since I have never read more than 10-15% of that door stop. (You would think people would be kinder in the world, I will pray for them)) Again, a testament to the game modeling (or just my knowledge transfer from WITE1) This is why I NEVER EVER EVER say I am an expert, I am not. If you think or have said I am then you are "WRONG" & have always said so. There are others far better than me in the knowledge arena & game play. But I can hold my own against anyone even me not knowing every caveat of the door-stop Manual or idiosyncrasies that arise.

Damn the Torpedoes full speed again, OH! Wrong war.... Anyway now to the AAR.

I would love to read the manual from cover to cover but I mean who has time specially when your trying to reach The Caucuses oilfields before the bad weather hits I usually just read bits and pieces here and there or grab it and take quick look for something particular I need to know.

I do plan to read it through some day may take 20 years

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Double post

[DeletedUser1769703214]

This 3 turn delay kicks my azz when I go to write things Sheesh, I have hard enough time remembering my zipper is zipped on my trousers least of all trying to remember what happened 4 turns ago is going to be difficult :- ( But gotta try.

Anyway, A few things first;

1. I DON'T use spreadsheets. Yup, people that have followed me from WITE1 know that I don't use spreadsheets and I continue that here. To me it is like having sex with multiple rubbers on. You are doing it but you don't get the immersion or the "real" feel but instead with all the crutches in place for tracking everything. If I have to do a spreadsheet to enjoy this game I might as well not play and have sex instead.

2. Again, another item about me that people that have followed me from WITE1 know but others may not. I rarely if ever read the manual(Any game for that matter) Again, I am looking for the immersion in the game & figuring it out on my own. If I can figure the game out without reading the rules then that is a testament to how well the design and implementation of the game has done in implementing the system. That is why you will see in many of my posts that I say, "if I read the manual it would probably make me a better player". (Not to mention some people making fun of me thinking I know the manual but I don't since I have never read more than 10-15% of that door stop. (You would think people would be kinder in the world, I will pray for them)) Again, a testament to the game modeling (or just my knowledge transfer from WITE1) This is why I NEVER EVER EVER say I am an expert, I am not. If you think or have said I am then you are "WRONG" & have always said so. There are others far better than me in the knowledge arena & game play. But I can hold my own against anyone even me not knowing every caveat of the door-stop Manual or idiosyncrasies that arise.

Damn the Torpedoes full speed again, OH! Wrong war.... Anyway now to the AAR.

I would love to read the manual from cover to cover but I mean who has time specially when your trying to reach The Caucuses oilfields before the bad weather hits I usually just read bits and pieces here and there or grab it and take quick look for something particular I need to know.

I do plan to read it through some day may take 20 years

We can row together in that boat on reading the manual

Oh! The Caucuses Oilfield. I was SO PUMPED in a game to go for the oilfields to make a difference.... Only to find out even if you captured the Oilfields it wouldn't do a darn thing or very little for you in WITE2. You talking about a let down after finding that out I could not eat for a week

[tm1]

GREAT! Love everyone & love having ya. We will be in for some punishment for sure as a Soviet since K62 is showing very promising mettle in our game. Again, this one goes all the way win or lose.

Great to see you back posting! And even better to hear that this is shaping up to be a competitive game that could have legs. Super looking forwards to seeing what kind of havoc K62 has go up to in his first few turns and how you deal with it! I'm sure that before long you'll have your pixel-troops whipped into shape :p !

Spoiler alert!!!!!! Don't read below if you don't want to know the future.


























K62 has Smolensk, Pskov, Talinin, and Odessa by turn 4 BUT! I do have a full line of Soviets from North all the way to the South turn 5! But Yeah this is going to be a rough game for me

So The Fuhrer didn't step in at the last moment and order Guderian to turn South just as he was about to close the trap on Smolensk, your right this could be fatal, a Politician not interfering in the affairs of military operations.

[tm1]

This 3 turn delay kicks my azz when I go to write things Sheesh, I have hard enough time remembering my zipper is zipped on my trousers least of all trying to remember what happened 4 turns ago is going to be difficult :- ( But gotta try.

Anyway, A few things first;

1. I DON'T use spreadsheets. Yup, people that have followed me from WITE1 know that I don't use spreadsheets and I continue that here. To me it is like having sex with multiple rubbers on. You are doing it but you don't get the immersion or the "real" feel but instead with all the crutches in place for tracking everything. If I have to do a spreadsheet to enjoy this game I might as well not play and have sex instead.

2. Again, another item about me that people that have followed me from WITE1 know but others may not. I rarely if ever read the manual(Any game for that matter) Again, I am looking for the immersion in the game & figuring it out on my own. If I can figure the game out without reading the rules then that is a testament to how well the design and implementation of the game has done in implementing the system. That is why you will see in many of my posts that I say, "if I read the manual it would probably make me a better player". (Not to mention some people making fun of me thinking I know the manual but I don't since I have never read more than 10-15% of that door stop. (You would think people would be kinder in the world, I will pray for them)) Again, a testament to the game modeling (or just my knowledge transfer from WITE1) This is why I NEVER EVER EVER say I am an expert, I am not. If you think or have said I am then you are "WRONG" & have always said so. There are others far better than me in the knowledge arena & game play. But I can hold my own against anyone even me not knowing every caveat of the door-stop Manual or idiosyncrasies that arise.

Damn the Torpedoes full speed again, OH! Wrong war.... Anyway now to the AAR.

I would love to read the manual from cover to cover but I mean who has time specially when your trying to reach The Caucuses oilfields before the bad weather hits I usually just read bits and pieces here and there or grab it and take quick look for something particular I need to know.

I do plan to read it through some day may take 20 years

We can row together in that boat on reading the manual

Oh! The Caucuses Oilfield. I was SO PUMPED in a game to go for the oilfields to make a difference.... Only to find out even if you captured the Oilfields it wouldn't do a darn thing or very little for you in WITE2. You talking about a let down after finding that out I could not eat for a week

Well i'm sorry to hear you could not eat for a week, but i was thinking more along the lines that if decided to be a book worm I would miss out on the fun on actually playing the game, and my current game's objective are the oilfields.

cheers

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Great to see you back posting! And even better to hear that this is shaping up to be a competitive game that could have legs. Super looking forwards to seeing what kind of havoc K62 has go up to in his first few turns and how you deal with it! I'm sure that before long you'll have your pixel-troops whipped into shape :p !

Spoiler alert!!!!!! Don't read below if you don't want to know the future.


























K62 has Smolensk, Pskov, Talinin, and Odessa by turn 4 BUT! I do have a full line of Soviets from North all the way to the South turn 5! But Yeah this is going to be a rough game for me

So The Fuhrer didn't step in at the last moment and order Guderian to turn South just as he was about to close the trap on Smolensk, your right this could be fatal, a Politician not interfering in the affairs of military operations.

The Fuhrer didn't have to have them turned South

[DeletedUser1769703214]

I would love to read the manual from cover to cover but I mean who has time specially when your trying to reach The Caucuses oilfields before the bad weather hits I usually just read bits and pieces here and there or grab it and take quick look for something particular I need to know.

I do plan to read it through some day may take 20 years

We can row together in that boat on reading the manual

Oh! The Caucuses Oilfield. I was SO PUMPED in a game to go for the oilfields to make a difference.... Only to find out even if you captured the Oilfields it wouldn't do a darn thing or very little for you in WITE2. You talking about a let down after finding that out I could not eat for a week

Well i'm sorry to hear you could not eat for a week, but i was thinking more along the lines that if decided to be a book worm I would miss out on the fun on actually playing the game, and my current game's objective are the oilfields.

cheers

Good luck with that Sir. I will go over there and catch up on your AAR. I really am behind on other peoples fine writing.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 1

Leader deaths.

17 dead leaders killed on the first turn. Two VERY good leaders at that. So, I started a thread on the Leader deaths https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 6&t=378999 and eventually in a later patch the leader death issue was addressed by the Development team. /Cheer and thank you for the update but this game played two turns, the first two turns, with this in place where leader deaths for the Soviets are the most prevalent.

Adding gas to the fire I had to save some of my best leaders that could be prone to this death machine for leaders. I will show later I "relocated" so many HQ's and had so many more more leader deaths but I was able to save "Malinosky" from the German Leader death machine this way at a minimum. It was that important to take the chance.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 1

By the end of the turn by relocating to save leaders I had a total of 30 Leader deaths. I added 13 more leaders to the total but was able to save some good leaders. (what you have to do sometimes when there is an issue in the game) Anyway it all worked out in the end & that is good enough.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 1

Malinosky Escapes. I had to have been super lucky for Malinosky to survive but here is his end of turn hex 6 hexes east of Kiev Others were not so lucky though

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Gotta go for awhile. Will update more later or tomorrow.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 1

Just to be clear here there is "no" house rule on GA size. You can have as many small raids as you want. I won't use it since it is not my style, but I want to experiment on stopping it. I bet there is a way. Maybe, maybe not, but what fun is it not to try? So lets try & have some fun if it continues. (I didn't play WITW so I will learn the hard way through experience in WITE. But I believe there are enough tools with both AS and AA to combat this. Only hypothesizing but worth a go)

Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water I get bombed from here to hell and back. This time on the Soviet side. Anyway, here is a snapshot of rail interdiction for the Lvov area. Looks great on paper! But the desired effect is lack luster. The small raids really make this nice, but in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, I am NOT saying this game is broken! (Had to put that in there just in case for those that read into things) I believe that the rail interdiction needs to be toned up just a tad bit, not much but a bit, to make it worthwhile to use. But hell what do I know? Nothing.

BUT! I DO KNOW I was able to rail out everything in the pocket that could rail out and that was A LOT through this rail interdiction!!!! So either I don't know Nothing(which is true) or I am onto something. You choose (I had tested this out when I was playing Germany and was just not worth it & here it is proven again. Maybe next time I try I stand on one foot and look to the east when doing the interdiction (meant as a joke the last sentence))

P.S. That was the only rail line out of the pocket by the way. The northern rail had been cut.

[loki100]

....
Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water I get bombed from here to hell and back. This time on the Soviet side. Anyway, here is a snapshot of rail interdiction for the Lvov area. Looks great on paper! But the desired effect is lack luster. The small raids really make this nice, but in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, I am NOT saying this game is broken! (Had to put that in there just in case for those that read into things) I believe that the rail interdiction needs to be toned up just a tad bit, not much but a bit, to make it worthwhile to use. But hell what do I know? Nothing.

BUT! I DO KNOW I was able to rail out everything in the pocket that could rail out and that was A LOT through this rail interdiction!!!! ...

Its worth remembering the mechanic in use here. Railway interdiction adds SMP, SMP demands more rail cap for freight to move through the hex or is removed from the feasible 200 for combat units.

So unless the interdiction is enough to start adding SMP it gets lost in the noise. For long hauls (freight or unit) even at the margins it may deny a hex or two of movement. For a short haul, its of no real note.

The secondary gain of railway interdiction is that also hits ground movement in those hexes.

In WiTW, the Allies have the assets to push rail interdiction to 6+ and that does add up. In Italy I use the mosquito FB in this role and you can pretty much close down the Adriatic rail line. Even better, GA-rail will not plaster mountain tops but will spread along the rail line where units will also most likely want to move. In France, you can generate so much around D-Day as to significantly increase German supply costs (esp combined with bombing out every railyard).

Or in other words, there are a lot of missions to hand that make sense with the volume and variety of the Western Allies airforce but become very niche in WiTE2.

[Stamb]

....
Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water I get bombed from here to hell and back. This time on the Soviet side. Anyway, here is a snapshot of rail interdiction for the Lvov area. Looks great on paper! But the desired effect is lack luster. The small raids really make this nice, but in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, I am NOT saying this game is broken! (Had to put that in there just in case for those that read into things) I believe that the rail interdiction needs to be toned up just a tad bit, not much but a bit, to make it worthwhile to use. But hell what do I know? Nothing.

BUT! I DO KNOW I was able to rail out everything in the pocket that could rail out and that was A LOT through this rail interdiction!!!! ...

...
The secondary gain of railway interdiction is that also hits ground movement in those hexes.
...

In this AAR it looks like ground interdiction is not doing much if anything.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 7#p4960117

[DeletedUser1769703214]

....
Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water I get bombed from here to hell and back. This time on the Soviet side. Anyway, here is a snapshot of rail interdiction for the Lvov area. Looks great on paper! But the desired effect is lack luster. The small raids really make this nice, but in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, I am NOT saying this game is broken! (Had to put that in there just in case for those that read into things) I believe that the rail interdiction needs to be toned up just a tad bit, not much but a bit, to make it worthwhile to use. But hell what do I know? Nothing.

BUT! I DO KNOW I was able to rail out everything in the pocket that could rail out and that was A LOT through this rail interdiction!!!! ...

Its worth remembering the mechanic in use here. Railway interdiction adds SMP, SMP demands more rail cap for freight to move through the hex or is removed from the feasible 200 for combat units.

So unless the interdiction is enough to start adding SMP it gets lost in the noise. For long hauls (freight or unit) even at the margins it may deny a hex or two of movement. For a short haul, its of no real note.

The secondary gain of railway interdiction is that also hits ground movement in those hexes.

In WiTW, the Allies have the assets to push rail interdiction to 6+ and that does add up. In Italy I use the mosquito FB in this role and you can pretty much close down the Adriatic rail line. Even better, GA-rail will not plaster mountain tops but will spread along the rail line where units will also most likely want to move. In France, you can generate so much around D-Day as to significantly increase German supply costs (esp combined with bombing out every railyard).

Or in other words, there are a lot of missions to hand that make sense with the volume and variety of the Western Allies airforce but become very niche in WiTE2.

I am forgiving & Naive and want to get along with everyone. But please forgive me but I do have to ask before proceeding to have a conversation on this response between you and I.

Is this another attempt at, and I will use your own words on another thread of, "Now I know a load of posters who have given up correcting stuff as it just seems pointless. I have no illusions that my views are going to affect the approach of a group of you, but I'd rather someone new to the game doesn't read something that is simply incorrect. So yep, I end up pretty much on my own trying to explain the actual mechanics as opposed to how someone has decided they are. And its pretty boring." from this thread https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... art=40#top ??

[loki100]

...
In this AAR it looks like ground interdiction is not doing much if anything.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 7#p4960117

to both of you, the point I was making is i think rail interdiction is a niche mission that needs to be delivered at high volume to have any real impact.

From experience of WiTW there is a secondary benefit that you can use the rail line to allocate what is also normal interdiction. That can be effective where a rail line is the good terrain corridor between otherwise poor terrain (where your interdiction allocation is a waste).

I don't think that a German player can generate the sort of volumes to meet the first criteria and for the most part the terrain doesn't set up the sort of patterns it does in say Italy. Equally there are a few places in the USSR where a rail interdiction mission can create a linear spread to cut off something like the Contentin mission.

or - in other words - I was agreeing with HLYA that I don't think its worth doing in the context of WiTE2.

I fully apologise for posting, and will stop reading, please carry on as you wish

[jubjub]

I would love to see interdiction buffed. Ideally you could lock Soviet divisions in place or severely limit their retreating ability by interdicting movement. With the amount of effort and supply it takes to get interdiction going, you'd think it would be more like 2-3 MP extra per level for infantry and 5+ for motorized units - in addition to causing much larger losses than currently for walking through. It's also too hard to interdict in wooded areas - even light woods requires a stupendous amount of bombers to get just 1 interdiction point.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

....
Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water I get bombed from here to hell and back. This time on the Soviet side. Anyway, here is a snapshot of rail interdiction for the Lvov area. Looks great on paper! But the desired effect is lack luster. The small raids really make this nice, but in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, I am NOT saying this game is broken! (Had to put that in there just in case for those that read into things) I believe that the rail interdiction needs to be toned up just a tad bit, not much but a bit, to make it worthwhile to use. But hell what do I know? Nothing.

BUT! I DO KNOW I was able to rail out everything in the pocket that could rail out and that was A LOT through this rail interdiction!!!! ...

Its worth remembering the mechanic in use here. Railway interdiction adds SMP, SMP demands more rail cap for freight to move through the hex or is removed from the feasible 200 for combat units.

So unless the interdiction is enough to start adding SMP it gets lost in the noise. For long hauls (freight or unit) even at the margins it may deny a hex or two of movement. For a short haul, its of no real note.

The secondary gain of railway interdiction is that also hits ground movement in those hexes.

In WiTW, the Allies have the assets to push rail interdiction to 6+ and that does add up. In Italy I use the mosquito FB in this role and you can pretty much close down the Adriatic rail line. Even better, GA-rail will not plaster mountain tops but will spread along the rail line where units will also most likely want to move. In France, you can generate so much around D-Day as to significantly increase German supply costs (esp combined with bombing out every railyard).

Or in other words, there are a lot of missions to hand that make sense with the volume and variety of the Western Allies airforce but become very niche in WiTE2.

I am forgiving & Naive and want to get along with everyone. But please forgive me but I do have to ask before proceeding to have a conversation on this response between you and I.

Is this another attempt at, and I will use your own words on another thread of, "Now I know a load of posters who have given up correcting stuff as it just seems pointless. I have no illusions that my views are going to affect the approach of a group of you, but I'd rather someone new to the game doesn't read something that is simply incorrect. So yep, I end up pretty much on my own trying to explain the actual mechanics as opposed to how someone has decided they are. And its pretty boring." from this thread https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... art=40#top ??

...
In this AAR it looks like ground interdiction is not doing much if anything.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 7#p4960117

to both of you, the point I was making is i think rail interdiction is a niche mission that needs to be delivered at high volume to have any real impact.

From experience of WiTW there is a secondary benefit that you can use the rail line to allocate what is also normal interdiction. That can be effective where a rail line is the good terrain corridor between otherwise poor terrain (where your interdiction allocation is a waste).

I don't think that a German player can generate the sort of volumes to meet the first criteria and for the most part the terrain doesn't set up the sort of patterns it does in say Italy. Equally there are a few places in the USSR where a rail interdiction mission can create a linear spread to cut off something like the Contentin mission.

or - in other words - I was agreeing with HLYA that I don't think its worth doing in the context of WiTE2.

I fully apologise for posting, and will stop reading, please carry on as you wish

I'm sorry but I had to ask since pretty much all our previous conversations had ended on unfriendly grounds between you & I. I really don't want to fight nor lock heads with you since, just like I have said in emails to Eric Rutkins, Joel Billings, and Red Lancer, we really are on the same team. You are a GREAT assest plus "WE" all want the best there is in this game. "WE" all love this game. I was just trying to alleviate another episode of "Toddle Pip" (here is the link https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 6&t=379362 since in that fairwell all but two of those reasons were directly attributed in some form or way to me. I didn't find it nice but it is ok I forgive you for what was done. I just want to get along, have good conversations without the path leading to either a "Bias" post or a game is "Broken" post. I can't speak for others but I bet many feel the same way.

Now having said that I welcome, as the title says, all are welcome all the time including your comments. Can we finally get out of the "Bias", "Broken" posts and be friends???

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Now back to the AAR after I answer other posts in this thread Had a busy day. I actually dropped tea on my keyboard and the darn keys are sticking OMG I am going to cry.