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I need help. There is a minefield at Bataan that is causing me a lot of grief. I can't get in to do any shore bombardments because of it. I've run my last turn 3 different ways and the results are the same; all my DMS are being lost to Bataan's massive coastal battery. Is this inevitable or is there any way to get my DMS in there without losing every single one?
I have them attached to a bombardment task force right now consisting of 5 CAs, a CL and 5 DDs going in at night and retiring north. Should they maybe be going in with a surface combat unit? I need to save these ships but Bataan is KILLING me ... literally.
Explain these game mechanics to me to save my ships!
Bataan is structured like Singapore, not something you want to assault by sea. You may not want to hear this but, the best way to avoid DMS loses, is to take Bataan via the back door, via land.
dr.hal wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 7:19 pm
Bataan is structured like Singapore, not something you want to assault by sea. You may not want to hear this but, the best way to avoid DMS loses, is to take Bataan via the back door, via land.
Man that sucks. So I either have to lose a ton of ships to clear the mines or I don't get access to Manila harbor until after Bataan falls. Sucky situation.
I agree, but the truth is, that's what happened in the actual war. The same with Singapore. Both are VERY difficult to take from the sea and expensive in ships and people. That's why the Brits were so flabbergasted when Singapore fell, as they had long believed that it was impregnable. Which was true, if attacked from the sea. Not true if your opponent bikes down the Malaysian Peninsula.
It might also help to continue bombing Bataan with as many bombers as you can bring to bear following after sweeps to rid the air of enemy fighters. The goal would not be to destroy the coastal batteries but to destroy supply levels that eventually will cause problems for the coastal guns. Best approach is a land attack but if you are set on a sea assault this might be a help.
WEXF
There is too much supply on Luzon for that to have any effect, you should be able to clean up via land long before. Unless you choose to send the infantry divisions someplace else, of course!
WEXF wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:41 pm
It might also help to continue bombing Bataan with as many bombers as you can bring to bear following after sweeps to rid the air of enemy fighters. The goal would not be to destroy the coastal batteries but to destroy supply levels that eventually will cause problems for the coastal guns. Best approach is a land attack but if you are set on a sea assault this might be a help.
WEXF
I don't want to take Bataan by sea, I want to bombard Clark Field. But in order to do it, the pathfinding makes me go past Bataan to get to it, so I need to neutralize the minefield at Bataan first to transit, and every attempt I've made has resulted in massive losses to my minesweepers.
As I understand it it wasn''t Bataan peninsular causing the problem so much as the island of Corregidor in the mouth of Manila bay and the two other islands in the southern channel containg Forts Hughes and Drum. I don't know how many batteries there were on the peninsular, but they must have been some as there was on the southside of the southern approach but they fell earlier. In between all these, minefields.
The only logical way of securing Manila Bay was to take the islands but this needed ships/barges. They could not get them into the bay or through the minefiels to attack from the rear, and an assault from the south would need to take out the forts as well in would have been way to costly and a frontal assault stupid. So it was down to the army in Bataan and cross narrower northern channel, eventually.
I've never been to Corregidor but on a map the northern channel looks approx 4km wide, the southern channel approx 14km wide. The Jahore channel in Singas (approx 1km), which I have been too. These distances make the islands in Manila Bay true islands. Singas separated by something little more than a river is technically an island but at 1km easy to cross. It wasn't it's island state hat made the British think it was impregnerable but there naive thinking that the jungle in Malaya was a major obtacle to rapid military operations, hence no need to defend it as there could easily defend Malaya itself.
The two situations are not the same with the exception that any attack my sea was ill advised unless you were prepared to take heavy losses, which the Japanese were not.
Don't sail to Bataan/Manila hex as IJN. Those up to 14" coastal defence guns there were designed exactly to stop that. Fort Drum had nickname "Concrete battleship".
As said, you need to take Bataan first before you can sail there.
"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-
Macquarrie1999 wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:29 am
Use land bombers to eliminate Clark Field. You aren't going to be able to touch Manila or Clark Field before you take Bataan.
Clark Field isn't an issue. The enemy has pulled all their aircraft back to bataan. The issue is that I am playing on HARD AI and they get magical deliveries of supplies and reinforcements and the enemy's level of fighter aircraft keeps returning every week. I've lost now DOZENS of bombers and fighters trying to suppress that tiny little airfield that won't die, and as such I have suspended all aircraft operations on Luzon because of it. The rate of loss for planes and pilots as been too steep. Additionally, the Allies have literally HUNDREDS of guns in their possession on both Clark and Bataan so even trying to attack Clark Field hex has been costly from flak losses alone. That's why I wanted to get naval bombardment going in the Clark Field Hex to soften it up. Once I take Clark, all the remaining Allied forces will be forced down onto Bataan and I can slowly attrit them out that way. Take a look at this:
Macquarrie1999 wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:29 am
Use land bombers to eliminate Clark Field. You aren't going to be able to touch Manila or Clark Field before you take Bataan.
Clark Field isn't an issue. The enemy has pulled all their aircraft back to bataan. The issue is that I am playing on HARD AI and they get magical deliveries of supplies and reinforcements and the enemy's level of fighter aircraft keeps returning every week. I've lost now DOZENS of bombers and fighters trying to suppress that tiny little airfield that won't die, and as such I have suspended all aircraft operations on Luzon because of it. The rate of loss for planes and pilots as been too steep. Additionally, the Allies have literally HUNDREDS of guns in their possession on both Clark and Bataan so even trying to attack Clark Field hex has been costly from flak losses alone. That's why I wanted to get naval bombardment going in the Clark Field Hex to soften it up. Once I take Clark, all the remaining Allied forces will be forced down onto Bataan and I can slowly attrit them out that way. Take a look at this:
Flak losses shouldn't be too high unless you're flying bombers too low. What alt are they set at? You could sweep Clark and catch the bleed through CAP to soften Bataan up in the mean time.
Flak losses shouldn't be too high unless you're flying bombers too low. What alt are they set at? You could sweep Clark and catch the bleed through CAP to soften Bataan up in the mean time.
If I fly them too low, the flak kills them. If I fly too high, they hit nothing. I have been sweeping Bataan for weeks, but they just keep getting replacement planes and pilots despite being cut off, and I am losing too many experienced pilots doing this. I can't afford the losses in pilots.
If you are that desperate, try this, against the AI you can always reload!
- you have cleared a lot of mines already, so the ones that are left have a smaller chance of hitting your ships
- make a TF with a couple of BB's & just a couple of supports
- make them go 'full speed' to Manila, basically run the gauntlet with your most heavily armored ships
Manila has a large port & repair facilities so even after a mine hit or a few 14' hits on your BB's, they should still make it through.
Once they are in port, patch them up & off you go bombarding!
Q to answer before you try: can the port in Manila reload BB's without an AKE?
