1985 Red Storm - Beta ready to download

[Taxman66]

Not specifically, just going off memory.

Well, I highly doubt they would send ground troops on such a scale. Advisors yes, a whole unit worth very, very unlikely. Maybe more than advisors, but mostly logistical help/ground troops. Perhaps some SAMs. I could also see some naval help maybe to make leaving the straights painful. Israel has some subs and nasty light/fast missile boats.
They would have sent equipment and armaments (provided the US promised to help replace & pay for such).
I'm sure air operations, based from Israel, would have run and I could also possibly see an air unit being deployed to Turkey (maybe 2? in the east and 1 in the west).
Remember at the time Israel was considered to have the best (equal to US training & equipment + more combat experience) pilots/air force (in a jet for jet comparison) in the world.

Other event options:
Fighter/Bomber Air strikes against Soviet/Warsaw Pack units in Turkey (with an Emphasis against air units).
Perhaps an instant tech upgrade? Would that be doable by event? I suppose it could be done by removing a unit and providing the same unit with tech upgrades if you had to.

[The Land]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Not specifically, just going off memory.

Well, I highly doubt they would send ground troops on such a scale. Advisors yes, a whole unit worth very, very unlikely. Maybe more than advisors, but mostly logistical help/ground troops. Perhaps some SAMs. I could also see some naval help maybe to make leaving the straights painful. Israel has some subs and nasty light/fast missile boats.
They would have sent equipment and armaments (provided the US promised to help replace & pay for such).

Interesting thoughts - thanks!

The problem with sending equipment is that on the timescales of the scenario - 3 day turns and a month for the whole thing - the Turks would have a problem integrating it. Maybe relatively straightforward things like MANPADs and ATGM but, even in an emergency, how long does it take for a tank crew used to an M47 Patton to switch over to a Merkava? Hence my thought about 'volunteer' land units.

I'm sure air operations, based from Israel, would have run and I could also possibly see an air unit being deployed to Turkey (maybe 2? in the east and 1 in the west).
Remember at the time Israel was considered to have the best (equal to US training & equipment + more combat experience) pilots/air force (in a jet for jet comparison) in the world.

Other event options:
Fighter/Bomber Air strikes against Soviet/Warsaw Pack units in Turkey (with an Emphasis against air units).
Perhaps an instant tech upgrade? Would that be doable by event? I suppose it could be done by removing a unit and providing the same unit with tech upgrades if you had to.

Tech upgrades are a pain to do via event - spawning a new unit is much simpler.

Air reinforcements would definitely be possible (from Israel, or the USA itself).

[El_Condoro]

Tech upgrades are a pain to do via event

Is it even possible? If so, I'd be interested to know how because it's one thing I'd like to see in the Editor.

[The Land]

ORIGINAL: El_Condoro

Tech upgrades are a pain to do via event

Is it even possible? If so, I'd be interested to know how because it's one thing I'd like to see in the Editor.

Not really. You can't change a unit by event except to damage it. I think you'd have to destroy whatever unit is in a specific position and replace it with another unit arriving with full tech. I don't know if the triggers are flexible enough to say "only fire this event if there is a Turkish mechanized division in Istanbul" but even if they are then it still requires the unit to actually be in the right place.

[El_Condoro]

Yeah, that's what I thought. BTW some scripts will allow a condition check like the one you describe:

Strength.txt
; If #CONDITION_POSITION has an added <unit_id, ...> then it will only consider the specified UNIT_ID types, e.g.
; Axis have an Army or Tank unit within 10 hexes of Warsaw
; #CONDITION_POSITION= 188,76 [10,10] [1,1] [1] [0] <5,26>

[The Land]

ORIGINAL: El_Condoro

Yeah, that's what I thought. BTW some scripts will allow a condition check like the one you describe:

Strength.txt
; If #CONDITION_POSITION has an added <unit_id, ...> then it will only consider the specified UNIT_ID types, e.g.
; Axis have an Army or Tank unit within 10 hexes of Warsaw
; #CONDITION_POSITION= 188,76 [10,10] [1,1] [1] [0] <5,26>

Yeah... it's all a bit of a bodge, though, so I'd prefer to avoid it. Might as well just create another unit, particularly if the one that would be 'upgraded' is so weak that it'd inevitably be destroyed!

[dhucul2011]

I remember reading some publications about the WPs strategy in a war in the 1980s. They stated that Romania and Bulgaria would not provide direct support to the effort. They would be expected to only defend the Southern flank

Maybe make these two at 80% mobilization. This would then protect Istanbul somewhat unless the USSR used diplomacy to get them to activate.

Events could also affect this if US units showed up in Turkey etc.

[The Land]

So the second part of the Southern Front is Yugoslavia and Italy.

Yugoslavia was a "non-aligned" country which, while Communist, never joined the Warsaw Pact and maintained a policy of neutrality. It embraced its role as a buffer between the Eastern and Western blocs.

However, that said, the Yugoslav Communist leadership must have been aware that in a world where the Warsaw Pact was defeated, they would have a hard time preserving their own position as leaders of the only Communist nation in Europe.

So if the Soviets make adequate progress in Germany, then they will get a Decision Event asking if they wish to entice Yugoslavia to their side. Yugoslavia's terms are that the Soviets have to commit themselves seriously to the invasion of Italy. If the Soviets say yes, then a top-rated army-strength formation deploys at Zagreb; if they say no, the same units show up in the Ukraine, but Yugoslavia stays out of the war.

This in turn affects Italy. Italy was a full member of NATO and, technically, committed to the defence of Western Europe. However Communist parties regularly scored 30-35% of the vote in Italian elections, and there was a widespread suspicion that if push came to shove, Italy might be an unreliable part of NATO - a 'soft southern flank'.

In this mod, Italy is a NATO major but won't fully mobilise unless there are hostile troops on its border. Either because of the USSR selecting the Yugoslavia event, or Soviet troops pushing into the Austrian Alps, or of course the USSR just declaring war.

Italian National Morale will also be the most fragile of any of the NATO majors. If the Eastern Block takes much of Northern Italy then probably the Italian government will collapse and a pacifist coalition of Communists and Socialists will take over. This in turn will have an impact on National Morale of the other NATO majors, and could affect victory.

There are a couple of other things in the Yugoslav situation. Yugoslavia has a navy, albeit mainly a defensive one. But the Adriatic ports might prove helpful for the Soviet Mediterranean fleet, which finds itself stuck in a hostile ocean. Also, Yugoslavia opens up new directions of attack into Austria and Greece, which may be relevant.

So here is the Soviet 6th Guards Army making an attack at the Italian border on Turn 2, supported by the Yugoslav army and airforce. The Italians had pushed a brigade forward into Trieste, which has just been destroyed. There are other Italian units on the other side of the Isonzo, and further reserves behind them...

[The Land]

And now, the final (?) theatre of the mod!

The Mediterranean was arguably a 'NATO lake' - the USSR's nearest territory was in the Black Sea, and the Treaty of Montreux limited the number of ships that could pass through the Turkish Straits and into the Med. While all of the northern coast of the Med was NATO members. Despite that, it's an interesting theatre!

Soviet foreign policy tried very hard to gain some naval bases in the Mediterranean. In the 1980s, this meant that harbours in Libya and Syria were available to Soviet ships. I've made the assumption that this will continue to be the case in wartime.

At any time there were normally 40-50 Soviet warships in the Mediterranean. This figure includes small vessels, auxiliaries and so on (repair ships, tenders, oilers). But it's quite a lot, for a nation that didn't own any shore.

So I have several Soviet submarine units and one surface action group based around a Slava-class cruiser in the Med, waiting to cause as much disruption as possible to convoys from Japan and Saudi Arabia, or from North America to Turkey. As I mentioned earlier, the 1980s had far more globally integrated trade than the 1940s - and because of the shorter timescale of the mod, moving trade to go around the Cape would not have been feasible (a ship setting off from Suez to go that route would probably not arrive by the end of the game...) So there are more convoys, and the convoys are more vulnerable.

Not shown here is the US Seventh Fleet, which is lurking in the Western Med. It has a carrier battle group which will very likely sink or see off the Soviet surface ships. The question is whether it will take any damage first, and whether the NATO fleets will be able to provide meaningful help to the Balkan fronts...

[The Land]

I've put a new download in the first post in this thread. I'm calling this a beta, as it has complete OOBs (subject to polishing and so on. [And it doesn't have the USSR Caucasus forces in yet, whoops]).

It is very definitely playable - and fun! - but there is plenty of work still to do on it. I'd mainly suggest playing it hotseat against yourself, though you could also try against the AI and see what happens - the results should largely be satisfactory if you play as the USSR vs a NATO AI.

Enjoy! And if you do try it, please let me know your feedback - you will a) help shape the mod into something better, and b) motivate me to keep working on it at a faster rate!

[Joesdd]

Sorry if this is just me being blind, but I don't see a .cgn file in the zip for the beta version. Will the mod still work without one?

[The Land]

ORIGINAL: Joesdd

Sorry if this is just me being blind, but I don't see a .cgn file in the zip for the beta version. Will the mod still work without one?

Fixed! *facepalm*

Glad to see someone is interested enough to point that out though

[Joesdd]

No problem, I've always wanted a Cold War gone hot scenario for one of these games and I'm happy you have put so much work into making this!

[The Land]

Just a note to say I have suspended developing this for the time being because I find I can't play wargames when there is a real war in Europe. Also, because the Strategic Command engine lacks important features, like attrition caused by Ukrainian farmers dragging away your APCs.

[nnason]

I am a cold war Army combat officer with 74 to 78 as a NATO reserve G3 staff officer and 81 to 84 staff officer at USAREUR HQs in Germany and a Naval War College graduate.

I want to thank you for your efforts.

I have some suggestions:
1. Russia's poor performance in Georgia and Azerbaijan and now in Ukraine show that the Soviet/Russian leadership didn't/does not adhere to the old adage that "Amateurs study tactics and professional study logistics."
2. We in Germany were most concerned about a surprise attack where a successful surprise might deny ground units access to the arms depots and our air assets would be destroyed on the ground.

Given these two issues, I think your game could have 4 grand themes: surprise and great USSR logistics, surprise and poor USSR logistics, no surprise and great USSR logistics, and no surprise and poor USSR logistics. The likelihood of USSR success goes down with each theme.

[The Land]

I am a cold war Army combat officer with 74 to 78 as a NATO reserve G3 staff officer and 81 to 84 staff officer at USAREUR HQs in Germany and a Naval War College graduate.

I want to thank you for your efforts.

I have some suggestions:
1. Russia's poor performance in Georgia and Azerbaijan and now in Ukraine show that the Soviet/Russian leadership didn't/does not adhere to the old adage that "Amateurs study tactics and professional study logistics."
2. We in Germany were most concerned about a surprise attack where a successful surprise might deny ground units access to the arms depots and our air assets would be destroyed on the ground.

Given these two issues, I think your game could have 4 grand themes: surprise and great USSR logistics, surprise and poor USSR logistics, no surprise and great USSR logistics, and no surprise and poor USSR logistics. The likelihood of USSR success goes down with each theme.

Thanks Noah!

The historical what-if is... challenging, to say the least. My impression is that the Soviet army in a hypothetical Cold War would probably fight better than the Russian army currently is in the Ukraine. They would have an ideological reason to fight, even if many of them weren't invested in the ideology much. They would probably be told what their mission actually was. They would have a broadly sound operational concept. And they would likely be under no illusions that they were marching into hell, rather than being told they were liberating people from a small band of thugs.

The mod as it stand actually reflects some of the themes you mention. I've assumed there is not full surprise and that NATO are mobilising (albeit patchily, some nations are very prepared and others not). NATO air units start vulnerable and the Soviet player has some tradeoffs about how they use their initial round of missile and air strikes. It is probably a good move to use them to destroy NATO aircraft on the ground, you can destroy several air counters. However there are many other potential calls on them - every strike used against air assets can't be employed against armoured formations or, e.g., a turn-1 raid to take and hold Copenhagen thereby opening the Baltic. Logistics do prove challenging for the Soviets as well - they have a lot of unit congestion and it's challenging to get HQs far forward - if you have Soviet Armoured Corps counters in supply 5/6 then their performance is greatly degraded compared to supply 9/10.

I'm aiming, when I come back to it, for one version which is reasonably balanced - and balancing will take priority over particular historical hypotheses (in the spirit of the base game).

[sad ham]

Hi, the Pact is at war with Greece and this is turn # 2; Yugoslavia goes to war allied with the Pact.
I've the Yugoslavian army at the border with Greece and in contact with enemy units but it is not possible attack them.
Why?

[The Land]

Hi, the Pact is at war with Greece and this is turn # 2; Yugoslavia goes to war allied with the Pact.
I've the Yugoslavian army at the border with Greece and in contact with enemy units but it is not possible attack them.
Why?

Thanks for flagging! I think probably I have omitted a Belligerence script so the game doesn't believe Yugo is at war with Turkey (the individual majors must be Belligerent, as well as being joined to the two sides). I'll fix this in the next patch.

[sad ham]

I'll fix this in the next patch.

Please let me know when you'll update the game.

[sad ham]

Thanks for flagging! I think probably I have omitted a Belligerence script so the game doesn't believe Yugo is at war with Turkey (the individual majors must be Belligerent, as well as being joined to the two sides). I'll fix this in the next patch.

On plus Yugoslavia does not produce anything. Why?