AUS 8th division, cannot form it

[Aktivist]

22nd Australian Brigade: destroyed in Malaya; resurrected in Sydney and disbanded permanantly
23rd Australian Brigade: never formed - Gull/Lark/Sparrow Btn walked to Sydney and disbanded permanantly
27th Australian Brigade: evacuated to Sydney

now the 23rd is marked as "inactive", for whatever that means. The first time I have difficulties forming the 8th division.

Seems I cannot submit the save file in this form.

[btd64]

One question. Why would you disband 1/3'rd of the division? Those units had pretty good experience....GP

Oh and welcome to the forum....GP

[Aktivist]

AIF42 creation. I upgraded the battalions from CMF41 to AIF42 and disbanded them permanantly. So I increased the AIF42 pool by 118 squads in 3 turns, enough to upgrade the rest of the AUS armed forces in short order. I kept some units behind: one brigade to feed all the remaining CMF militia into and one division to feed all the remaining/producing CMF infantries into. I should be able to rebuild the division with the values of the 27th brigade, which is also very experienced.

The question now ist - because I cannot form the division - is there any way to resurrect the 23rd brigade? I know scenario editing won't do, I've tried that. So there's only savegame editing left... or maybe someone has another idea? Don't know, imprinting the 23rd brigade image on a different unit, say one of the small companies or battalions...

[LargeSlowTarget]

After walking all the way from Darwin resp. Rabaul (!) to Sydney you wouldn't want to reform into a new unit either, would you?

I'm afraid that "disband permanently" means just that - it's permanent.

As far as I know easy savegame editing is not available for ordinary mortals, otherwise PBEM would suffer from a lack of confidence and trust - some IT experts or the game devs might be able to do it.

IMO the best thing to do is to accept things as they are and to shrug it off as a learning experience.

[Aktivist]

What is up? I had never issues forming large formations such as the 8th AUS division before. Even when some of her subunits were not available anymore. Other examples: the 17th Indian division, two brigades start off the Indian coast, one is present in Burma. Has never been a problem. Another example? Please, you are welcome: the Australian 30th brigade, one battalion of which is starting at Port Moresby, two on the mainland. The 24th and 25th US infantry divisions. The 2nd USMC division. The Americal division. If have always disbanded some subunits if it was convinient in one way or another. I have never experienced these subunits to becoming "inactive". And neither have you. And that "inactiveness" is what's causing the issue.

And why would I integrate the Gull/Lark/Sparrow batallions with their different infantry & anti tank models into the 8th AUS formation, when I simply can and have formed her by the grace of one brigade alone ... even one battalion alone? I have explained that I boosted my available amount of modern infantry squads more than double the monthly production in a few days. I have done so in the past and not just with the australian replacement pool.

There is no "learning experience" here - it has always worked in the past and it did so in this very game with different formations. It is a technical glitch from which nothing can be learned. Disbanding temporarily does not reset the unit organisation roster, making it impossible to form the parent unit for another 180 days. Why would anybody do this?

(Besides, why the suprise of me be able to evacuate units from Rabaul? The battalion walked into an Catalina, got airlifted to Cairns, walked out of it and made its way to Sydney.)

[BBfanboy]

My Bird Battalions in Darwin and Rabaul have 25 pounder guns and Marmon Harrington armored cars. Ain't no PBYs evacuating those! Are you sure you got all of the battalion in Rabaul evacuated? Fragments elsewhere would block reforming the division.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Jeez, can't you see that this was a joke? And airlifting is not walking.

Your problem is that you have not recombined the Bird battalions into the 23rd Bde before disbanding them. This has rendered the 23rd Bde inactiv, because it has not been constituted.

Just test it - modify Scen 1 and teleport all 8th Div units to Sydney (you'll have to save the scen in a different slot above 20). Then disband 22nd and the three Bird Bn - and surprise, the remaining 27th Bde cannot rebuild into the 8th Div.

In fact, just disband the Bird battalions and the remaining 22nd and 27th Bdes can no longer recombine to form 8th Div.

Then make the same test but with the Bird battalions recombined into 23rd Bde, then disband 23rd Bde - and 22nd Bde as well if you want - and you can rebuild 8th Div from the remnants.

Btw, don't tell me what I have experienced or not in this game.

[btd64]

Jeez, can't you see that this was a joke? And airlifting is not walking.

Your problem is that you have not recombined the Bird battalions into the 23rd Bde before disbanding them. This has rendered the 23rd Bde inactiv, because it has not been constituted.

Just test it - modify Scen 1 and teleport all 8th Div units to Sydney (you'll have to save the scen in a different slot above 20). Then disband 22nd and the three Bird Bn - and surprise, the remaining 27th Bde cannot rebuild into the 8th Div.

In fact, just disband the Bird battalions and the remaining 22nd and 27th Bdes can no longer recombine to form 8th Div.

Then make the same test but with the Bird battalions recombined into 23rd Bde, then disband 23rd Bde - and 22nd Bde as well if you want - and you can rebuild 8th Div from the remnants.

Btw, don't tell me what I have experienced or not in this game.

LST, as expected, right on point....GP

[Aktivist]

The only thing I read here is narcissistic indulgence, by making a fair inquiry a question of "walking or shipping or flying". Or if I as a player am content with sacrificing a few pieces of heavy equipment in favor of saving the whole unit (and its TOE) and second guessing my motivation for doing it in the first place. Followed by the always obvious "deal with it, noob!" attitude. If that's your idea of constructive assistance, please don't bother the next time posting a reply.
You have been asked for help, not for mockery. A simple "Me, a great and renowned modder of the community also has not the slightest idea how to manipulate a savegame, cause I only do scenario editting, thank you very much." would have been sufficed .. well, actually, it would have been useless, but still honest and modest.

If I had wanted to discuss personal strategies, I would have posted my inquiry in the appropriate section of the forum. How coincidentally, that neither of you bothered to spray your charme at the modding sub section regarding the same problem.

And if I may be so prophetic, at least one of you cannot refrain from answering this, simply m u s t have the last word. Amirite?!?

[LargeSlowTarget]

No need for a prophet, it's the classic forum scheme seen so many times:

Noob: The game is bugged! I have made no mistake! And to make sure to get an answer, I create multiples threads about the same problem!

Veteran: Sorry but the game does not work according your preconceived opinions and wrong assumptions.

Noob: How dare you yadayadayadastartnamecallingyadayadayadatrolling

Veteran: I don't appreciate the attitude but I'll give you another chance.

See, your initial question was "The question now ist - because I cannot form the division - is there any way to resurrect the 23rd brigade?" and my answer was "I'm afraid that 'disband permanently' means just that - it's permanent."

And then about your idea "there's only savegame editing left" the answer was "savegame editing is not available".

I don't know how much more constructive assistance you require, but if you refuse to learn, next time don't bother to post a question here.

Apparently you cannot accept an answer that doesn't fit in your concept how the game should work, instead you started attacking me, nevertheless I have given you more constructive details, and then you started insulting me - dude, YOU have an attitude problem here, not me.

Too bad Alfred is not around anymore, he would have had a field day with you.

I wonder what happened to the green button of the old forum software?

[GetAssista]

I wonder what happened to the green button of the old forum software?

Indeed!

Forumites would still make mental notes about certain users, this thread included, but GB was useful

[BBfanboy]

Seems like this is all about philosophical differences. The veterans of this forum have accepted that the game comes with built-in limitations to prevent unrealistic moves by the players. The OP wants to get around those and and asked for help to do so. That is their choice and none should say not to try. But providing advice about how the game handles things is not saying

no

, it is just providing information that should be heeded.

The disputes happen when good advice is questioned by new players who do not understand which game features can be hacked and which are brick walls they cannot change. It seems insulting to the veterans to have their advice questioned and the new player cannot understand where the offence is in asking further questions along the same line to try and find a chink in the brick wall.

I think both sides are feeling the other side is not listening. No need for flames here - just wish the OP luck and bow out. And the OP should accept that no one is going to help do something no one has done before.

[Trugrit]

I’m not sure no one has done it before.

The OP was asking about the 8th Australian Division.

I would say that a player would not be able to rebuild a division without
all the components but I know of at least two other players who say
they have done it with the 8th Australian Division using a single brigade.

One was crsutton from the last post in this thread in 2010:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 9#p2269169

It appears that the 8th Australian Division is special in some ways. Read the entire thread
as Andy Mac goes into particulars on that division in his post in the thread.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=165756

So….If I was trying to do this I would first do a complete all unit search to make sure
there are no 22nd or bird fragments hanging around on the map.

Then I would change the Brigade Headquarters from Burma Corps to Southwest Pacific
which is the inactive headquarters designation of the 8th Division.

If that did not work I would wait until the Brigade gets an upgrade and try again.
If that did not work I would wait for the next upgrade and try again to form the division.

[GetAssista]

I would say that a player would not be able to rebuild a division without
all the components but I know of at least two other players who say
they have done it with the 8th Australian Division using a single brigade.

You can rebuild if some of components were there in the game but were destroyed. You cannot rebuild if one of the components was never formed, that is had its subcomponents disbanded or destroyed w/o the ability to revive.