How it is possible to have this CVs?

[Stamb]

Units have same morale. Militia is a bit more experienced.

But RD has more than 2x men and 192 guns vs 11!

Still they are almost the same in CV, and militia has actually higher CV in attack.

How it is possible?

[loki100]

simple - support squads are critical to unit performance but don't really count for cv calculation -- see the table in 34.4

thats a lot of manpower adding not much cv (each such squad is bigger than a rifle squad and only counts for 1/3)

and that Militia division will not perform well in the attack - in fact if I saw it in the front line as the axis player I'd hit it as a easy retreat/rout and thus a batch of lost elements

[Stamb]

RD has 325 rifle squads
militia 188 + 119 = 307

RD has 370 Support and militia 103.

But militia has almost no equipment. Except of machine guns and mortars.

While RD is equipped pretty well.

I still do not get it.

[loki100]

look at the table for how cv is calculated, it takes 3 support squads (which are bigger) to generate the cv of one infantry squad

[Stamb]

but RD has more rifle squads and more support squads

[Stamb]

RD has more elements of every type than this militia

Is it 8 exp diff between rifle squads and 21 CPP in favor of militia?

[loki100]

but RD has more rifle squads and more support squads

well unless my eyesight is failing me, they both have much the same number of rifle squads

I'm not sure what you asking? if its how the cv is calculated I've given you the basic table, you can modify that via CPP. if you are saying you disagree with how the cv is calculated, well thats up to you, its always been a fairly broad concept across all the WiTx games (& I believe was inherited from the earlier games such as War in Russia) so I doubt it'll get much of a change at any stage soon.

[Stamb]

I just wanted to point out that it is strange to see similar CVs with so drastic difference between units.
Where one is 14k men with almost full equipment but with 30 fatigue and another one has 6k men with only riffles and machine guns.
I understand that it is very unlikely that method for displaying CVs gonna change.
But still it is odd to see it.

Thanks for your answers.

[K62_]

Part of it is due to the different mix of elements, another part to experience and also a small part due to lack of vehicles.

Looking at the table in section 34.4, infantry squads have a CV weight of 3 (except flamethrowers) and everything else (except armored cars) has a weight of 1. The rifle division has a lot more guns and support squads, but these don't add a lot to the CV. I did some quick math and got a total weight of 1935 for the rifle division and 1159 for the militia division, which is a ratio of 1.67:1, whereas the total number of men is in a ratio of 2.35:1. So this factor explains almost half of the difference.

The next important factor is experience. The manual gives no precise indication of how experience affects CV, but the militia unit does have about 20% more experience (48 vs. 40) and the relationship is non-linear. For example, early war German divisions at 80 experience have around 5x - 10x more CV than Soviet divisions at 40 XP. So it's quite possible that a unit with 48 experience will have 67% more CV than a unit with 40 experience.

The last factor is vehicles. According to 23.8.3 units suffer an attacking CV penalty for lacking vehicles, and the rifle division has only 89% of its need. This is a minor factor but it would bring the rifle division to 3.27 attack CV if it had all its vehicles. If it had the same CPP level as the militia division its attacking CV would be further increased to 3.96.

There's also a vague reference in section 4.8.3 about CV being reduced by 1/3 of the fatigue level, but this seems hard to interpret and it's not mentioned again in the more detailed Combat Value section.

[Zovs]

CPP also plays a part.

[K62_]

I did some quick tests and a unit with 32 fatigue seems to lose about 13% of its CV. So increasing experience from 40 to 48 seems to add about 45% CV.

[DarkHorse2]

Also, be aware of the impact that Combat Preparation Points (CPP) have on the displayed CVs.

It is really hard to do a side-by-side comparison of unit CVs unless they have near equal CPPs as well.

[Stamb]

Thanks for comments and especially K62 for going so deep into a details.