Taming the Tiger or Slaying the Bear......loki100 (Axis) vs Speedy (SU)

Please post your after action reports on your battles and campaigns here.

Moderator: Joel Billings

jubjub
Posts: 641
Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 12:52 pm

Re: Taming the Tiger or Slaying the Bear......loki100 (Axis) vs Speedy (SU)

Post by jubjub »

7) I've worked out how to generate level 2 forts in about 4 turns, early on I was planning these months in advance, towards the end they were being put together just behind the current front.
Forts do seem to be built too quickly. You can even build level 2 forts in 2 turns.
As Roger mentioned above the last Tank battle was the final straw. I lost 6-8 weeks of tank production in a single week. It would take months to rebuild the 40% of my Armoured force that was affected which is frankly ridiculous.
The tank losses from the combat model are way too high. It probably didn't help that Loki was playing on the new test patch that probably has reduced axis AFV losses.
Not being able to achieve breakthroughs/encirclements or being able to attrite the Axis leaves the Red Army with no feasible warfare options. Coupled with that the LW still roamed about flying 100's of sorties. When there's over 50+ Axis fighters engaging any VVS force it's normally game over loss ratio wise for the VVS.
Not going to lie, it seems like there was something off on your offensives from '42, and an inability to sustain offensives. This resulted in fewer guards units than you need and a catch-22 where you can't win battles efficiently because you don't have guards units and can't promote guards units because you can't win battles. The guards promotion process has to start in the first winter where the axis can't counter attack and you get ungodly amounts of manpower fed to the Red Army.

My solution to the air problem is to overwhelm the Luftwaffe in one section of the front. In a certain area, there's usually only 3/4 fighter groups covering a single section. These same groups will fly over and over again, and they will eventually be ground down. These groups can easily lose upwards of 50% of their fighters in a turn. Once they've been reinforced by bad pilots, their performance drops significantly.

The Germans don't get nearly enough 'trained pilots' each turn to replace all of their losses, so they either get no replacements, or they use untrained pilots. Since they have a very limited amount of fighter groups, the Germans can't really afford to send them to the reserves to train. On the other hand, the Soviets can train thousands of untrained pilots each turn, and cycle hundreds of fighters per turn between the front and the reserves, providing a continuous base of quality fighter pilots. If they concentrate their fighters, you can just bomb the rest of the front, killing thousands each turn with IL-2's. The air war is definitely a self reinforcing loop-back, and casually fighting the Luftwaffe here and there will just ensure they have their fighter groups stocked with invincible 99 xp pilots.

Lastly, that SU composition is not ideal for holding pockets. Tank brigades should only be used on attack, since they melt on the defense - as shown in that last battle.

Apologies if I'm being too critical, but I think a lot of the issues you faced were game-play issues and not systemic game issues - not that those don't exist. Hopefully others can read this and avoid some of the pitfalls that I thought I saw.
User avatar
loki100
Posts: 11708
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Utlima Thule

Re: Taming the Tiger or Slaying the Bear......loki100 (Axis) vs Speedy (SU)

Post by loki100 »

jubjub wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:21 pm
7) I've worked out how to generate level 2 forts in about 4 turns, early on I was planning these months in advance, towards the end they were being put together just behind the current front.
Forts do seem to be built too quickly. You can even build level 2 forts in 2 turns.

...
I'm not referring to front line forts but pre-built defensive lines in the rear. What I was doing at the start was spending time to create these, as the LW divisions became available I broke them into regiments to hold the hex, disbanded the FZ and started again.

Towards the end I worked out how to get these lines up and running in 4-5 turns as the next fall back line. No idea how you could get a fort 2 in this sort of hex in 2 turns?
Not being able to achieve breakthroughs/encirclements or being able to attrite the Axis leaves the Red Army with no feasible warfare options. Coupled with that the LW still roamed about flying 100's of sorties. When there's over 50+ Axis fighters engaging any VVS force it's normally game over loss ratio wise for the VVS.
Not going to lie, it seems like there was something off on your offensives from '42, and an inability to sustain offensives. This resulted in fewer guards units than you need and a catch-22 where you can't win battles efficiently because you don't have guards units and can't promote guards units because you can't win battles. The guards promotion process has to start in the first winter where the axis can't counter attack and you get ungodly amounts of manpower fed to the Red Army.
...

Apologies if I'm being too critical, but I think a lot of the issues you faced were game-play issues and not systemic game issues - not that those don't exist. Hopefully others can read this and avoid some of the pitfalls that I thought I saw.
[/quote]

I realise this AAR and game is unusual in where it got to, I would have prefered it to run to the end but Steven was fairly fed up and at that stage the sort of time commitment is no fun.

Like me, he got partly fed up with the tone of the forum.

Now, for what its worth, I think this game addresses the supposedly biased nature of the game. Now I realise none of the enthusiastic proponents of that view are going to take the slightest notice. But yes, Steven didn't get many Gds (till well into 1943), just maybe I set the Germans up well in the first winter, just maybe I exploited the 1942 45 NM period to compensate for my poor 1941? Just maybe the game isn't biased and its quite feasible for a German player to win (in game terms) over the long term?
eetmorsqrls
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:21 am

Re: Taming the Tiger or Slaying the Bear......loki100 (Axis) vs Speedy (SU)

Post by eetmorsqrls »

Registered on the forums just to post this. Filthy casual here but this AAR was an amazing read. Thank you both for putting so much time and effort into it!!! <3
User avatar
loki100
Posts: 11708
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Utlima Thule

Re: Taming the Tiger or Slaying the Bear......loki100 (Axis) vs Speedy (SU)

Post by loki100 »

thanks for posting and glad you enjoyed the read. It was one of those games that got better to play (for us both) the deeper we got and the more it followed the logic of our choices rather than the relatively constrained opening phases.

playing the Axis on the strategic defensive is very different to playing out 1941 (yet again)
Post Reply

Return to “After Action Reports”