City forts attacker losses too low.

[Zebtucker12]

If you put enough men into the battle you will take low losses which is odd since there should not be much room to overwhealme a fully defended city.



As you can see the damage to the defenders was fully done by soviet infantry frontally assaulting a well defended city taking minimal losses....



Maybe incircled urban hexes should not get isolated combat debuffs?
I had flown in over 800 tons of supply the turn before.

[Stamb]

This is what i was also trying to show here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... ?p=4991401

In addition to that, one turn of isolation and this is the end. Same in loki's AAR. One turn of isolation and Sevastopol fall. It is impossible to make last stands as game punishes you for using city forts. You will just lose more troops but not delay the attacker

[cameron88]

You are correct, it is the biggest current gripe i have with this game currently. This game has dumb combat the more i play it and see examples, as the more troops you have the less casualties you take because the casualties are partially or fully influenced by the end outcome of the battle. This is especially true with city forts and defending German units partially/fully in a pocket.

The developers should have checks in place for stuff like this, and not make the casualties based almost entirely if one side wins or not.. *cough* retreat losses. I consistently see battles like this, but the one below is by far the stupidest and most unrealistic result, and made me consider uninstalling the game for months - a year in hopes of it being fixed. Turn 46 in STB PBEM Campaign, defending units were >110% supply and NOT isolated, they were isolated on Soviet air phase only, which may be bug as to why SS Das Reich surrendered, but even if they didn't, the losses are horribly calculated. In real life or virtually anyone playing this video game would expect these units to atleast hold 1 turn, and EVEN IF they somehow were unable to defend this for 7 days, the casualties should be 1:3 ATLEAST.

If Soviets stack multiple guards corps, apparently the attacking frontline soldiers magically take less losses, because having more troops in reserve makes them get shot less by MG-42s i guess.

cityattackbtw.png (1.28 MiB) Viewed 1085 times

[Stamb]

and compare losses that German takes when attacking into clear hex with over stacking penalty



from this thread https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 7&t=379910

does not play well together

[loki100]

you really are comparing Hippos and Apples there.

By 1943, as the Axis you only take on a Rifle Corps in a fair fight if you really have no choice precisely as it is tough enough to extract a 1-1 loss ratio

...

In addition to that, one turn of isolation and this is the end. Same in loki's AAR. One turn of isolation and Sevastopol fall. It is impossible to make last stands as game punishes you for using city forts. You will just lose more troops but not delay the attacker

don't overclaim when you don't know the full context. The city had been cut off for rail supply for about 8 turns, also while I couldn't get air interdiction high enough to isolate it was severly limiting freight deliveries. There was almost no stored freight in the city by the time I started to attack and no practical way to rebuild that stock

[Stamb]

...

...

In addition to that, one turn of isolation and this is the end. Same in loki's AAR. One turn of isolation and Sevastopol fall. It is impossible to make last stands as game punishes you for using city forts. You will just lose more troops but not delay the attacker

don't overclaim when you don't know the full context. The city had been cut off for rail supply for about 8 turns, also while I couldn't get air interdiction high enough to isolate it was severly limiting freight deliveries. There was almost no stored freight in the city by the time I started to attack and no practical way to rebuild that stock

shipping via sea is still possible and you can bring a lot of freight via it, obviously i do not know if it was a case in your game or not
for how long city was truly isolated before a fall?

[Stamb]

anyway

here are examples when unisolated Leningrad can withstand any frontal attack
and then only after 1 turn of isolation falls without a problem
consistently, 100% chance to take it
despite huge stocks of freight

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1#p4991401

[Stamb]

YTurn 46 in STB PBEM Campaign, defending units were >110% supply and NOT isolated, they were isolated on Soviet air phase only, which may be bug as to why SS Das Reich surrendered

btw there was, or maybe still is another bug

sometimes when units are in port or city hexes they retreat but game still shows that they surrender
did you check if Das Reich is really not present on a map via CR?

[Zebtucker12]

If Soviets stack multiple guards corps, apparently the attacking frontline soldiers magically take less losses, because having more troops in reserve makes them get shot less by MG-42s i guess.

Yeah this is the strangest part a city or rough terrain etc would not have that much combat frontage....

anyway

here are examples when unisolated Leningrad can withstand any frontal attack
and then only after 1 turn of isolation falls without a problem
consistently, 100% chance to take it
despite huge stocks of freight

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1#p4991401

This binary system maybe makes sense for a clear hex but then again not really it should be all about their ammuntion avalible not a hard binary debuff for being isolated even if its 100k isolated with plenty of supply in a well defended city!

[cameron88]

btw there was, or maybe still is another bug

sometimes when units are in port or city hexes they retreat but game still shows that they surrender
did you check if Das Reich is really not present on a map via CR?

100% was destroyed, and will return 10 turns later with 0% TOE.

[ErmanMagon41]

Very strange!


Regards, Yuri Nator

[Zebtucker12]

We have taken 10% losses and sligthly lost battle lets leave our fortified city.
Is this really how its supposed to be?
(Soviets where not isolated)

[ToxicThug11]

We have taken 1% losses and sligthly lost battle lets leave our lvl 4 fort city.
I am happy about what just happened
(Soviets where not isolated and germans did not use pioneers or air support or anything except romanian artillery)

Hello friend are you questioning the battle? Maybe you should double check the battle.

My Romanian cavalry batallion was in the battle against you providing 0.1 engineer stat.

Obviously this might be hard for you to understand (inexperienced at game?)

The Romanian cavalry batallion infiltrated the city and assassinated Leonid Novgorod which caused Odessa (Ukrainian partisans) to prematurely explode their boobytraps. Then your men wisely exited the lvl 4 fort city with a catacomb to surrender next turn.

Thanks,
ToxicThug11

[ToxicThug11]

To whom it may concern,

ALARM

Hi since you have not acknowledged that I am correct I have highlighted the reason you lost the battle

Hope this clears everything up for everyone

Yours faithfully,

LEE N. ESQUIRE CLEMENT