Some weird Luftwaffe AC data (Bf 110C-5 vs Bf 110E-3)

[DarkHorse2]

Some weirdness in the Luftwaffe AC data involving the Bf 110C-5, Bf 110E-3...

I understand both of these aircraft were equipped with the RB 50/30 Camera.
(see https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-o ... 9602433000)

This camera was used for medium- and high-altitude panoramic or strip photography by Germany during the Second World War. It has a Tessar 50 cm lens.

Following are WiTE2 specifications for the Bf 110C-5 and Bf 110E-3 Recon variant AC:

WiTE2_Bf110_Recon_Compare_Notes.jpg (324.14 KiB) Viewed 547 times

Some relevant WiTE2 camera data:

Low Level Camera:
* Load: 30
* Max Ceiling: 16k
* Effective Ceiling: 12k

Mid Level Camera:
* Load: 50
* Max Ceiling: 30k
* Effective Ceiling: 24k

High Level Camera:
* Load : 75
* Max Ceiling: 50k
* Effective Ceiling: 36k

Questions

1. Why does the Bf 110C-5 have an upgrade path set to the JU 88D-1
2. If both the C-5 and E-3 were equipped with the RB 50/30 Camera, then why is it only considered a "High Level" camera on the C-5
3. Given the max altitude of 34k ft on both of these aircraft and the WiTE2 ratings of the cameras above, would it not make sense that the Bf 110 E-3 would also carry high-altitude cameras as well

4. Given the near identical characteristics of these two AC variants, why was the Profile changed from "GE Strat Recon (8)" to "GE Tac Recon (6)"

[Denniss]

have a look at the air profile

[DarkHorse2]

I caught it just as you replied.

I really find this peculiar considering it was, in WiTE2 terms, the highest flying altitude-wise aircraft available to the Luftwaffe in 1941.

Nah... I don't believe that it went from a Strategic recon role (whatever that means) to a Tactical recon role.

The "Bf 110C-5" fighter-reconnaissance variant, with the MG FF cannon replaced by a camera. It retained the DB 601A-1 engines; a "Bf 110C-5/N" variant was built with the boosted DB 601N engines.

The "Bf 110E-3" was a reconnaissance fighter, with the two MG FF cannon and the bomb racks deleted, and a camera installed in the belly under the cockpit. It also had provision for wing drop tanks, and introduced twin 7.9-millimeter MG 17 machine guns, fixed along the fuselage to fire to the rear.

They added drop tanks to even further increase its range. That would seem to indicate it being more "strategic", not less.

[Stamb]

Some relevant WiTE2 camera data:

Low Level Camera:
* Load: 30
* Max Ceiling: 16k
* Effective Ceiling: 12k

Mid Level Camera:
* Load: 50
* Max Ceiling: 30k
* Effective Ceiling: 24k

High Level Camera:
* Load : 75
* Max Ceiling: 50k
* Effective Ceiling: 36k

this is nice info
1. is it correct to assume that recon planes will fly at effective ceiling altitude when they are doing recon? (i know that they are supposed to fly to a recon hexes with an altitude that player sets, and then adjust to a camera level)
2. is effective ceiling in feet?

[DarkHorse2]

Some relevant WiTE2 camera data:

Low Level Camera:
* Load: 30
* Max Ceiling: 16k
* Effective Ceiling: 12k

Mid Level Camera:
* Load: 50
* Max Ceiling: 30k
* Effective Ceiling: 24k

High Level Camera:
* Load : 75
* Max Ceiling: 50k
* Effective Ceiling: 36k

this is nice info
1. is it correct to assume that recon planes will fly at effective ceiling altitude when they are doing recon? (i know that they are supposed to fly to a recon hexes with an altitude that player sets, and then adjust to a camera level)
2. is effective ceiling in feet?

Yes, in this case, it is in feet.

While in the editor, it actually allows you to convert to "Imperial Units", which is nice to be able to toggle between the two.

[Stamb]

oh wow
i would like to have such option in game settings that would allow to use meters in game
no idea what are X feet without calculator

[DarkHorse2]

@Denisse,

Everything I have found on it continues to characterize the "E-3" as "long-range reconnaissance...".

Additionally, it uses the same camera as the "C-5", the RB 50/30. For it to magically become lighter (in load) and lose visual range is plain weird.

the Messerschmitt Bf 110 E, was a refinement of the C an d D models,

Bf 110E-3 became the long-range reconnaissance model with Rb 50/30 camera in place of cannons.

The next modification - the Bf 110E-3 reconnaissance aircraft - is similar to the C-5 reconnaissance aircraft, but had an extended tail section, like the D-3. Cannons and bomb racks under the fuselage were removed from it, instead of which photographic equipment was installed. The scout could carry two 300-l or 900-l tanks under the wing

In addition there were quite large numbers of Me 110C-5, Me 110D-3 and Me 110E-3 in numerous long-range reconnaissance groups, which supported Operation Barbarossa.

... can find nothing to support a change in A/C classification.

The "E-3" appears to have been able to do everything the "C-5" could do, but only better.

[Denniss]

German strategic recon units (Fernaufklärung) switched to Ju 88D-1 once there were sufficient available, the Bf 110 was relegated to Tactical recon units (Nahaufklärung) although it was often used to recon locations further behind the frontline.
The Rb 50/30 is actually a mid level cam, the high level cam was the Rb 75/30

[Lurberri]

The subject of aerial cameras in the game and their use at different heights (the conjunction of different types of cameras - different flight altitudes of planes) has always had me very perplexed. It is a very complex matter that is dealt with in a very simple way. Or maybe I'll be wrong? For example, aerial cameras are the same for both sides... when the difference in technical quality was noticeable. The Germans had, by far, the best optics in the world in those years and the quality of their aerial photos had nothing to do with that of the Soviets (even much better than those of the Western Allies). Cameras from German reconnaissance planes were highly coveted prey for the Allies when they were captured.

Exactly the same can be said of the optics of the battle tanks (in which the Germans once again had a notable advantage), a class of key factors that are often overlooked but have a great impact on the battlefield.