USA invasion of Japanese mainland China

[davidc]

Version 4.2.2
Have USA Marines in South China Sea and cannot invade Japanese controlled hexes in mainland China
I can invade Kiungchow as that is not classed as mainland China.
China has Stilwell HQ and as far as I can tell that should allow 2 USA units in China.

NoInvasion.png (272.41 KiB) Viewed 747 times

Game file

[Orm]

Seems like a bug to me. No reason that I can think of that disallows that invasion.

[eouellet]

Agreed, looks like a bug.

The fact it is in mainland China should not have any impact on the invasion, not even Stilwell. Stilwell HQ would only be relevant after a successful invasion to meet foreign commitment, as the hex would revert to Nat. China.

[Courtenay]

Stilwell is important. Without Stilwell, this invasion would not be allowed. With Stilwell, assuming you don't have any other US units in China, the invasion should be allowed.

[Joseignacio]

Stilwell is important. Without Stilwell, this invasion would not be allowed. With Stilwell, assuming you don't have any other US units in China, the invasion should be allowed.

I am not 100% sure but this is my opinion too.

OP: Maybe you have some other USA units as well? Like Strat Bombers, which are usual at this stage...

[eouellet]

Stilwell is important. Without Stilwell, this invasion would not be allowed.

Let me know where you see that rule.

In the case here, the MAR is invading a Japanese controlled hex, not entering a Nat Chinese hex. Without Stilwell, the MAR would have to be removed because of foreign commitment, as the hex once conquered reverts to Nat Chinese control, and not to US control, but only after the invasion succeeded. The invasion should be allowed, even without Stilwell.

[craigbear]

I am not certain that the marine need be removed even if no Stillwell. At the invasion, they are invading a Japanese hex; hence, no HQ needed. If the hex reverts to Nationalist, still okay, similar to when Gort leaves France... do not need to remove units to satisfy commitment. Now, I am not certain the Marine could enter other nationalist hexes from there.

[Joseignacio]

Definitely you need an HQ, at least so that the unit survives invasion:

Foreign troop commitments
A major power or minor country unit that ends any step in the home
country of a friendly major power it doesn’t co-operate with is destroyed unless:
 it started the step there; or
 it started the step elsewhere and the unit satisfies the foreign troop
commitment limit.

A minor country unit that ends any step in the home country of an
aligned minor country on the same side is destroyed unless:
 it started the step there; or
 it started the step elsewhere and the unit satisfies the foreign troop
commitment limit.

You satisfy the foreign troop commitment limit if there is at least one
HQ from the unit’s home country there (any Commonwealth HQ will do
for Commonwealth units) and the total number of that country’s non-HQ
units there is less than or equal to the total printed reorganisation values
of the HQs.

I guess maybe the game doesnt allow you to take a hex that you probably wouldnt invade if you knew your unit would die automatically (only benefit would be giving the hex to China).

What about of enough land moves, did you have at least 2 left?

[Joseignacio]

I am not certain that the marine need be removed even if no Stillwell. At the invasion, they are invading a Japanese hex; hence, no HQ needed. If the hex reverts to Nationalist, still okay, similar to when Gort leaves France... do not need to remove units to satisfy commitment. Now, I am not certain the Marine could enter other nationalist hexes from there.

It doesnt matter who controls the hex but whose Home Country it is.

[Orm]

You can not enter this hex in mainland China without Stillwell, or another US HQ, even if it is Japanese controlled (if it is US troops, of course). See rule, and FAQ answer attached.

Cut from RAC:
11.11 Land movement
....
11.11.5 Active major powers
You can move a land unit controlled by an active major power into any hex controlled by:
• that major power and its aligned minors; or
• another active major power on the same side (or its controlled minor countries); or
• a major power or minor country it is at war with.
There are some exceptions:
• units can’t enter the home country of a non co-operating major power on the same side unless they satisfy the
foreign troop commitment rules (see 18.2); and
• minor country units can’t enter a hex controlled by another minor country aligned with their side unless they
satisfy the foreign troop commitment rules.
• units cannot enter a country controlled by another power on their side without permission of the owner.

Q2.5-9
If the USSR invades China, taking hexes
from Japan, who’s hexes are they now?
USSR or China? Especially if no one is
returning any territory.
A:
USSR. It is however still Chinese home
nation territory for the purposes of the
Foreign Troop Commitments rule,
regardless of who controls it. Date
01/02/1998