It transfers to the Balkans in the summer of 1943. Having been around that phase twice now it takes a bit of preplanning to both ensure your mobile assets are in assault fronts and sort out the geographical implications. First time caught me out as its easier to have a lot more formations on map from a 1941 GC than you have from a StB game. Add on, with the 15 hex limit on army commands (and losing assualt bonus if you exceed this) it takes a bit of juggling as with 4 Armies usually strung out say Orel-Black Sea its easy to keep them all in command, going to three (and the likelihood the front will split on the Pripyet again) takes a bit of organising.
One reason to stick with games that are less than ideal, there are transitional issues all over the place that can trip you up. StB is a good scenario but its never going to be the same as a 1941 start taken into the same phase.
But generally this is why I keep all 4 Pzr Armies on assault at the end of 1941. You need the command capacity as much as any of the particular bonuses.
Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Moderator: Joel Billings
T46 - more obsessing over the weather
T46 – 3 May 1942
Weather still variable, this turn heavy rain/heavy mud north of Smolensk. A mix of light and heavy mud to the south.
Not good news
Looks like next turn the weather over most of the front will improve. But no options to make progress at Leningrad. I'm getting a bit worried here as I have some first rate units and commanders committed and if it is going to stalemate I'd rather accept the failure now and use them elsewhere. As it is I have vulnerable flanks and have had to push the Hungarians into the line earlier than I'd have wanted to.
As in the previous weeks, main action is in the Orel sector. I want it back for the VP but also it gives me some security if (when) I commit to the south – or its a springboard if I gamble on Moscow (or more feasibly the cities to its south).
Finally able to run low level recon so gain some ideas of the wider Soviet deployment.
Managed to encircle two of the Soviet divisions that had attacked 20 Pzr division last week, one is a Gds formation so suspect the Soviets will respond. Slowly encircling Orel and I think I've found their 5A – I've certainly found a strong cluster of Gds formations.
2PzA finally makes some progress but the Soviet 1SA and 40A had attacked first, routing the IV Hungarian Corps that was covering the northern flank [1]. Despite this setback, elements of 4 Army cut the N-S Soviet rail line at Stary Oskol while the Pzrs drove towards the Don.
Around Stalino, 6A started a small offensive to clear the line of the Donets. For the moment, still letting 1 PzrA regain its mobility. Another failed attack on 31A in the Crimea.
Losses were more even, not helped by the Hungarian disaster or (more) heavy Rumanian losses in the Crimea.
Soviets edge towards 6m. I've deployed the LW back to the map, seems as if the VVS is being held back (or more feasibly there is a lack of AOG to use).
Overall freight situation resolving, I'll push more commands from pri 2 to 3 as a result.
[1] This is where the commitment at Leningrad is hurting me. That sector should be on the offensive not weakly screened. Also I'd forgotten that while the 1943 Hungarian formations are good defensively, if stacked, the 1942 version left as a screen is just a tasty morsel for the Soviets.
Weather still variable, this turn heavy rain/heavy mud north of Smolensk. A mix of light and heavy mud to the south.
Not good news
Looks like next turn the weather over most of the front will improve. But no options to make progress at Leningrad. I'm getting a bit worried here as I have some first rate units and commanders committed and if it is going to stalemate I'd rather accept the failure now and use them elsewhere. As it is I have vulnerable flanks and have had to push the Hungarians into the line earlier than I'd have wanted to.
As in the previous weeks, main action is in the Orel sector. I want it back for the VP but also it gives me some security if (when) I commit to the south – or its a springboard if I gamble on Moscow (or more feasibly the cities to its south).
Finally able to run low level recon so gain some ideas of the wider Soviet deployment.
Managed to encircle two of the Soviet divisions that had attacked 20 Pzr division last week, one is a Gds formation so suspect the Soviets will respond. Slowly encircling Orel and I think I've found their 5A – I've certainly found a strong cluster of Gds formations.
2PzA finally makes some progress but the Soviet 1SA and 40A had attacked first, routing the IV Hungarian Corps that was covering the northern flank [1]. Despite this setback, elements of 4 Army cut the N-S Soviet rail line at Stary Oskol while the Pzrs drove towards the Don.
Around Stalino, 6A started a small offensive to clear the line of the Donets. For the moment, still letting 1 PzrA regain its mobility. Another failed attack on 31A in the Crimea.
Losses were more even, not helped by the Hungarian disaster or (more) heavy Rumanian losses in the Crimea.
Soviets edge towards 6m. I've deployed the LW back to the map, seems as if the VVS is being held back (or more feasibly there is a lack of AOG to use).
Overall freight situation resolving, I'll push more commands from pri 2 to 3 as a result.
[1] This is where the commitment at Leningrad is hurting me. That sector should be on the offensive not weakly screened. Also I'd forgotten that while the 1943 Hungarian formations are good defensively, if stacked, the 1942 version left as a screen is just a tasty morsel for the Soviets.
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
I have been thinking about the 2nd Pz Armee situation and Assault status HQ's.loki100 wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 10:01 am It transfers to the Balkans in the summer of 1943. Having been around that phase twice now it takes a bit of preplanning to both ensure your mobile assets are in assault fronts and sort out the geographical implications. First time caught me out as its easier to have a lot more formations on map from a 1941 GC than you have from a StB game. Add on, with the 15 hex limit on army commands (and losing assualt bonus if you exceed this) it takes a bit of juggling as with 4 Armies usually strung out say Orel-Black Sea its easy to keep them all in command, going to three (and the likelihood the front will split on the Pripyet again) takes a bit of organising.
One reason to stick with games that are less than ideal, there are transitional issues all over the place that can trip you up. StB is a good scenario but its never going to be the same as a 1941 start taken into the same phase.
But generally this is why I keep all 4 Pzr Armies on assault at the end of 1941. You need the command capacity as much as any of the particular bonuses.
Lets look at a couple of scenarios here.
1. Axis player v Soviet AI sudden death match
Chances are if you hang tough during the winter of 41 /42 you will retain your 4 " assault status " HQ's with your Pz Armee's and win either in 42 or 43 before 2nd Pz Armee heads to the Balkans, so no real dramas.
2. Axis player v Soviet AI NON sudden death match.
Here again you could hang tough through 41 / 42 , you will lose 2nd Pz HQ but you would have had the " assault status " for nearly 2 years extra, plus come Jan 1944 when the Axis have a chance to win you also would have had a second extra " Assault HQ " for almost another year as well, so you have still been in front so that is a plus.
3. Axis Player v Soviet Player sudden death scenario.
Here things might get tricky, you hold your 4 " assaults " over the first winter and through 42 / 43 so that is OK, however you lose 2nd Pz HQ late 43, so your down to 3 " Assault HQ's " your still in front.
Now depending how your opponent is on the battlefield it might not be even have a worry to have only 3 assault HQ's.
or
If you really think you need that 4th HQ then just before the cutoff and loss in 1941 transfer the status to a Inf Armee that wont be demobilised I.E. don't give it to 11th Armee
.4. The same situation would apply to a NON sudden death game as well.
That is my thoughts on the matter, your Soviet human player may not be happy about it but I cant see your AI opponent voicing objection.
Last edited by tm1 on Mon May 23, 2022 2:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Aye, I think the balance sheet is:
Against *4
1 - less units can dig > level 1 in the first winter (I'm assuming that as the critical phase)
.... ?
Genuinely I think that is the negatives. If you take my view on the first winter that fortifications are a bonus not the key then its not much of an issue in any case.
For
1 - More CC - which you do need in 1942 and again in 1943 (assuming you don't shed formations in a Stalingrad disaster)
2 - operational flexibility.
You can get all the Pzr corps into 3 Pzr Armies in 1942 so its not about CPP bonus as such. In this game, at this stage, 4 PzrA is actually an infantry formation and it will retain that broad structure for some time (spoilers). Elsewhere I slot infantry in/out depending on their role, if its a sustained offensive - in, if they are holding a sector - out.
The real benefit (and why the loss of 2 PzrA is a pain) is when you go pn the defensive. With 4 assault armies you can have Pzr corps clustered in groups of 2-3 all along the front from say Smolensk to the Black Sea. if you can get and keep the MP high (as I did in my last HtH) that reduces the need to anticipate what the Soviets will do. The advantage is you can constantly substitute between commands or redeploy the army HQs to keep a good command chain. As in that game, that makes it highly risky for the Soviets to risk a deep penetration or even a pocket as retribution can be quick and brutal. If you were down to say 2 assault armies by 43-44 that is quite a loss of flexibility. The loss of 2 Pzr, and the inevitable geographic split as the Soviets push back on Gomel/Kiyev is that you end up with one cluster just of 2-3 Pzr corps. In my view that is a defensive force only, and if committed things could go bad if the Soviets have fresh reserves. Whereas with a cluster of 3-4 you can keep at least one back fresh and use the others to their full extent.
So its a real bonus, but clearly one the game sets up for you. I think the trade off is less balanced than maybe intended which to me, makes it a bit of a non-decision. But then i see other AARs and player comments on the forum that plenty of people do abandon one of the commands so clearly they frame the trade off differently to me
Against *4
1 - less units can dig > level 1 in the first winter (I'm assuming that as the critical phase)
.... ?
Genuinely I think that is the negatives. If you take my view on the first winter that fortifications are a bonus not the key then its not much of an issue in any case.
For
1 - More CC - which you do need in 1942 and again in 1943 (assuming you don't shed formations in a Stalingrad disaster)
2 - operational flexibility.
You can get all the Pzr corps into 3 Pzr Armies in 1942 so its not about CPP bonus as such. In this game, at this stage, 4 PzrA is actually an infantry formation and it will retain that broad structure for some time (spoilers). Elsewhere I slot infantry in/out depending on their role, if its a sustained offensive - in, if they are holding a sector - out.
The real benefit (and why the loss of 2 PzrA is a pain) is when you go pn the defensive. With 4 assault armies you can have Pzr corps clustered in groups of 2-3 all along the front from say Smolensk to the Black Sea. if you can get and keep the MP high (as I did in my last HtH) that reduces the need to anticipate what the Soviets will do. The advantage is you can constantly substitute between commands or redeploy the army HQs to keep a good command chain. As in that game, that makes it highly risky for the Soviets to risk a deep penetration or even a pocket as retribution can be quick and brutal. If you were down to say 2 assault armies by 43-44 that is quite a loss of flexibility. The loss of 2 Pzr, and the inevitable geographic split as the Soviets push back on Gomel/Kiyev is that you end up with one cluster just of 2-3 Pzr corps. In my view that is a defensive force only, and if committed things could go bad if the Soviets have fresh reserves. Whereas with a cluster of 3-4 you can keep at least one back fresh and use the others to their full extent.
So its a real bonus, but clearly one the game sets up for you. I think the trade off is less balanced than maybe intended which to me, makes it a bit of a non-decision. But then i see other AARs and player comments on the forum that plenty of people do abandon one of the commands so clearly they frame the trade off differently to me
T47 - Orel (for a change)
T47 – 10 May 1942
Weather still variable but the worst now is light rain in the north. Still a mix of heavy/light mud on the ground in the north but its clear south of Smolensk.
Back to trying to interdict Osinovets, can't match a combination of the port's own interdiction and a substantial Soviet effort to keep it open.
Most of those losses are related to this commitment ... not doing much for my optimism I can finish this sector off.
In some degree of desperation, I decided on an attack on the wooded hex at the centre of the Soviet line. My hope was to drop the fort and force a commitment of their reserves. The result actually cut the rail to Leningrad (not important in itself) and now gives me 3 hexes on Pavlovo.
Elsewhere some probing attacks but main action around Orel and the start of an offensive in the south.
The small pocket formed last turn was held when 18 Pzr beat off a substantial Soviet attack.
That set the basis not just to eliminate the surrounded Soviet units but to encircle Orel itself and form a new pocket. 9A carried on putting pressure on the Soviet lines but had less success than in recent weeks.
Taking advantage of the gains at Orel, 2 PzrA struck northwards and almost created a large pocket as the bulk of the attacks fell on the Soviet 40A.
I'm not so sure this was a good idea as I strongly suspect the 2 best Soviet armies are near here and have not been committed.
To the south, 4A continued to put pressure on the Soviet forces along the Donets.
In support, 6A attacked to the south but the bulk of AGS continued to build up and refit.
Loss ratio in my favour, helped by the small pockets (I think I have 4 more divisions cut off this turn)
Soviets have made quick use of their additional manpower, I think if I can keep their losses around 100k per turn that really limits the scope to grow their on map army
And all the truck metrics I can find. Most important is truck unit is around 90% but another 10% were used for logistics.
Weather still variable but the worst now is light rain in the north. Still a mix of heavy/light mud on the ground in the north but its clear south of Smolensk.
Back to trying to interdict Osinovets, can't match a combination of the port's own interdiction and a substantial Soviet effort to keep it open.
Most of those losses are related to this commitment ... not doing much for my optimism I can finish this sector off.
In some degree of desperation, I decided on an attack on the wooded hex at the centre of the Soviet line. My hope was to drop the fort and force a commitment of their reserves. The result actually cut the rail to Leningrad (not important in itself) and now gives me 3 hexes on Pavlovo.
Elsewhere some probing attacks but main action around Orel and the start of an offensive in the south.
The small pocket formed last turn was held when 18 Pzr beat off a substantial Soviet attack.
That set the basis not just to eliminate the surrounded Soviet units but to encircle Orel itself and form a new pocket. 9A carried on putting pressure on the Soviet lines but had less success than in recent weeks.
Taking advantage of the gains at Orel, 2 PzrA struck northwards and almost created a large pocket as the bulk of the attacks fell on the Soviet 40A.
I'm not so sure this was a good idea as I strongly suspect the 2 best Soviet armies are near here and have not been committed.
To the south, 4A continued to put pressure on the Soviet forces along the Donets.
In support, 6A attacked to the south but the bulk of AGS continued to build up and refit.
Loss ratio in my favour, helped by the small pockets (I think I have 4 more divisions cut off this turn)
Soviets have made quick use of their additional manpower, I think if I can keep their losses around 100k per turn that really limits the scope to grow their on map army
And all the truck metrics I can find. Most important is truck unit is around 90% but another 10% were used for logistics.
Re: T47 - Orel (for a change)
And all the truck metrics I can find. Most important is truck unit is around 90% but another 10% were used for logistics.
[/quote]
I know this has been talked about many times including by you, but when Zhukov has just launched his 41 winter offensive and your neck deep in snow trying desperately to hang grimly onto Wyazma .
You don't have time to wander about the battlefield looking for your Quartermaster General and ask for a spare truck or know if that ship in The Baltic Sea carrying your winter camouflage fatigues will arrive or was it torpedoed and sunk in the Gulf of Riga.
Since you have associations with " The General Staff At OKH " ( 2 by 3 ) can you put in quiet message that there Field Commanders need to know up to date Intelligence quickly and all in the same communiques.
You will have to forgive the theatrics but I love the game and want to get into the spirit of the moment.
What I think we all want is a separate page or even just a condensed section in the log for trucks and ships metrics, not the entire ship convoy routes but every thing you have put together in your last post.
With my eyes I need everything lumped together for easy access.
regards
[/quote]
I know this has been talked about many times including by you, but when Zhukov has just launched his 41 winter offensive and your neck deep in snow trying desperately to hang grimly onto Wyazma .
You don't have time to wander about the battlefield looking for your Quartermaster General and ask for a spare truck or know if that ship in The Baltic Sea carrying your winter camouflage fatigues will arrive or was it torpedoed and sunk in the Gulf of Riga.
Since you have associations with " The General Staff At OKH " ( 2 by 3 ) can you put in quiet message that there Field Commanders need to know up to date Intelligence quickly and all in the same communiques.
- winter.jpg (22.91 KiB) Viewed 1240 times
You will have to forgive the theatrics but I love the game and want to get into the spirit of the moment.
What I think we all want is a separate page or even just a condensed section in the log for trucks and ships metrics, not the entire ship convoy routes but every thing you have put together in your last post.
With my eyes I need everything lumped together for easy access.
regards
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
oh I agree, we've asked for some truck metrics to go into the graphs as well which would ease tracking.
I still find it hard to get a handle on the truck issue, in part the feedback loops but also what really consumes them. You can get quite a lot out but it takes a mass of record keeping and cross-checking. I'm not fussed that there are parts of the game design I can't influence (like allocation to a specific formation) but we are invited to make choices around say supply priorities and its a bit hard to judge the consequences.
This is what lies behind the issue with the Soviet approach of stick everyone on pri 4 and forget. Both myself and Carlkay take the view that is setting up a real problem come 1943 for the Soviet player but no-one who uses that strategy has reported into 1943 (HtH). So we know why we hold that view, and have scraps of data but can't pin it down.
Specifically that wee table comes from 3 separate screens, and then 2 different tabs on the logistics report and one important element (repaired) is buried at the end of a section that describes every supply transaction. More generally there is one number you can't get - trucks damaged in a turn (which may be more informative than trucks actually destroyed). its there if you take last turn's 'in repair' less this turn's repair and compare to this turn;s 'in repair' but that is a pretty convoluted process.
The 'but' in all this is the logistics report is apparently very hard to extract, so its a real task for Pavel and something he needs time just to concentrate on. And of course, so is the editor, bug elimination, other QoL issues etc.
I still find it hard to get a handle on the truck issue, in part the feedback loops but also what really consumes them. You can get quite a lot out but it takes a mass of record keeping and cross-checking. I'm not fussed that there are parts of the game design I can't influence (like allocation to a specific formation) but we are invited to make choices around say supply priorities and its a bit hard to judge the consequences.
This is what lies behind the issue with the Soviet approach of stick everyone on pri 4 and forget. Both myself and Carlkay take the view that is setting up a real problem come 1943 for the Soviet player but no-one who uses that strategy has reported into 1943 (HtH). So we know why we hold that view, and have scraps of data but can't pin it down.
Specifically that wee table comes from 3 separate screens, and then 2 different tabs on the logistics report and one important element (repaired) is buried at the end of a section that describes every supply transaction. More generally there is one number you can't get - trucks damaged in a turn (which may be more informative than trucks actually destroyed). its there if you take last turn's 'in repair' less this turn's repair and compare to this turn;s 'in repair' but that is a pretty convoluted process.
The 'but' in all this is the logistics report is apparently very hard to extract, so its a real task for Pavel and something he needs time just to concentrate on. And of course, so is the editor, bug elimination, other QoL issues etc.
T48 - Bombing Lake Ladoga
T48 – 17 May 1942
Weather improves to light rain/mud in the north and clear in the south.
VVS took heavy losses last week and seems to have abandoned the fight over Lake Ladoga. I just failed to isolate the port this turn.
Even better, now I could hit it from 3 sides that is Pavlovo captured. Feasibly gives me a 4 sided attack on Leningrad but also the means to isolate it via land improves if I can clear the woods to the north.
The heavy losses for the Soviets are useful as that is another stress on their ability to push in freight via Osinovets.
Given this situation, diverted some assets from 4 PzrA to see if I can force the Soviets back to the Volkhov. Really this is to deny them the airbases (and port interdiction) they gain from Kobana.
Elsewhere the Soviets gave ground, so apart from in the south not much happened. As I've noted a few times, tank losses are significantly down (and this despite often now using the Pzrs for combat) so I've not had to use the replacement battalions to simply repair trashed formations.
I'm steadily running them down and have decided not to keep them as discrete SU (say attached to the motorised division), so they are acting as march battalions for the Pzrs. Any that drop below 100 tanks are reinforced and I'm also using them to clear out the Czech tanks in the TOEs.
In the Valdai region, still making some limited gains but have also been thrown back by some Soviet counter-attacks. Here my goal is simply to add to the replacement/reinforcement challenge for the Soviets but disrupting their rail network (and thus improve mine) is a useful goal.
Partially reduce the Orel pocket, the city should fall next turn.
As I suspected, the elite of the Red Army are on this sector and attacked to widen the partial pocket I created last week near Voronezh. However, they then pulled back and this week I cut off 4 divisions. So not sure if they re-appear or the Soviets are waiting till I have to commit elsewhere.
3PzrA has lost 3 Pzr divisions in recent weeks (to the West etc) and I need to think about my goals on this sector. The Soviet retreat suggests they are taking some serious losses but will probably defend Tula and Voronezh heavily (these are the only real targets here), so its a case of what is worthwhile for now (since I now hope to free up 4PzrA from Leningrad).
Essentially I need to release 2 PzrA for other operations by mid-June.
The only sustained offensive was by AGS along the line of the Donets towards Voroshilovgrad. 6A had launched a probing attack last week to the north, creating a small pocket and followed up the Soviet retreat from Izyum.
This week, the well rested 17A broke the Soviet line to the south over a 40km stretch. That allowed the fresh 1 PzrA not just to create a larger pocket but to exploit to a depth of 50km reaching the outskirts of Voroshilovgrad.
Losses, stick to my estimate that around 100k a week stops any real expansion of the Red Army. Their permanent losses are now just over 3m.
OOB. I keep the Pzr armies on assault over the winter, having 4 assault commands now is far more valuable than the marginal gain in terms of digging trenches in the winter.
VP situation. I'm still below the HWM but Orel will be recaptured next week. Of the historical captures, Rzhev and Kalinin are out of reach, should regain Rostov fairly soon. So that is +20 pushing my HWM to 611. No idea beyond that at the moment, a lot depends on Leningrad, the situation around Orel and whether AGS can build some momentum. My assumption is that there a lot of fresh Soviet units in that sector as its been quiet since March.
Tula and Leningrad are currently feasible, Tambov and Ryazan if I keep up the pressure south of Moscow but not if I switch to the Caucasus.
Leningrad will get my HWM up to 647 and the city element to 560.
Not much happening off map for either side but I'm hoping my relatively low on map losses may trigger a few VP, equally pinning the Soviets to the map slows any build up in the TB for them (and the Soviets can generate a steady flow of off-map VP if they have spare manpower).
Weather improves to light rain/mud in the north and clear in the south.
VVS took heavy losses last week and seems to have abandoned the fight over Lake Ladoga. I just failed to isolate the port this turn.
Even better, now I could hit it from 3 sides that is Pavlovo captured. Feasibly gives me a 4 sided attack on Leningrad but also the means to isolate it via land improves if I can clear the woods to the north.
The heavy losses for the Soviets are useful as that is another stress on their ability to push in freight via Osinovets.
Given this situation, diverted some assets from 4 PzrA to see if I can force the Soviets back to the Volkhov. Really this is to deny them the airbases (and port interdiction) they gain from Kobana.
Elsewhere the Soviets gave ground, so apart from in the south not much happened. As I've noted a few times, tank losses are significantly down (and this despite often now using the Pzrs for combat) so I've not had to use the replacement battalions to simply repair trashed formations.
I'm steadily running them down and have decided not to keep them as discrete SU (say attached to the motorised division), so they are acting as march battalions for the Pzrs. Any that drop below 100 tanks are reinforced and I'm also using them to clear out the Czech tanks in the TOEs.
In the Valdai region, still making some limited gains but have also been thrown back by some Soviet counter-attacks. Here my goal is simply to add to the replacement/reinforcement challenge for the Soviets but disrupting their rail network (and thus improve mine) is a useful goal.
Partially reduce the Orel pocket, the city should fall next turn.
As I suspected, the elite of the Red Army are on this sector and attacked to widen the partial pocket I created last week near Voronezh. However, they then pulled back and this week I cut off 4 divisions. So not sure if they re-appear or the Soviets are waiting till I have to commit elsewhere.
3PzrA has lost 3 Pzr divisions in recent weeks (to the West etc) and I need to think about my goals on this sector. The Soviet retreat suggests they are taking some serious losses but will probably defend Tula and Voronezh heavily (these are the only real targets here), so its a case of what is worthwhile for now (since I now hope to free up 4PzrA from Leningrad).
Essentially I need to release 2 PzrA for other operations by mid-June.
The only sustained offensive was by AGS along the line of the Donets towards Voroshilovgrad. 6A had launched a probing attack last week to the north, creating a small pocket and followed up the Soviet retreat from Izyum.
This week, the well rested 17A broke the Soviet line to the south over a 40km stretch. That allowed the fresh 1 PzrA not just to create a larger pocket but to exploit to a depth of 50km reaching the outskirts of Voroshilovgrad.
Losses, stick to my estimate that around 100k a week stops any real expansion of the Red Army. Their permanent losses are now just over 3m.
OOB. I keep the Pzr armies on assault over the winter, having 4 assault commands now is far more valuable than the marginal gain in terms of digging trenches in the winter.
VP situation. I'm still below the HWM but Orel will be recaptured next week. Of the historical captures, Rzhev and Kalinin are out of reach, should regain Rostov fairly soon. So that is +20 pushing my HWM to 611. No idea beyond that at the moment, a lot depends on Leningrad, the situation around Orel and whether AGS can build some momentum. My assumption is that there a lot of fresh Soviet units in that sector as its been quiet since March.
Tula and Leningrad are currently feasible, Tambov and Ryazan if I keep up the pressure south of Moscow but not if I switch to the Caucasus.
Leningrad will get my HWM up to 647 and the city element to 560.
Not much happening off map for either side but I'm hoping my relatively low on map losses may trigger a few VP, equally pinning the Soviets to the map slows any build up in the TB for them (and the Soviets can generate a steady flow of off-map VP if they have spare manpower).
T49 - last of Orel, more of Leningrad and a strategy discussion
T49 – 24 May 1942
Weather continues to clear, just a few patches of light mud in the north.
Still can't isolate Osinovets, managed 5-4 for the interdiction score so have to hope that is reducing the shipping capacity.
Had one of those ideas that turn out to have been pretty stupid, decided to see if I could take NW Leningrad from just one hex – the gain is then it isolates the key hex. The disadvantage was its not a very good idea
But did manage to grab another wooded hex- just
So essentially no way to speed this up, I can't get an isolation over the lake but I should be able to cut the city off overland [1].
Accepting this means I have too much allocated just to Leningrad. First alternative was to see if i could make gains around the Lake, even if I can't take all the ports, capturing a few will reduce their naval interdition and deny a base for the VVS' fighters that are being very annoying. Can add this attack to the collection of 'not good ideas' I had this turn.
Final attempts to make any progress in the Valdai region, in some sectors the Soviets had made localised gains but managed to force them back (the side with no forts really suffers in this sort of restrictive fighting).
Orel retaken and 9A made some small gains but decided to rest 3PzA for another turn and think about targets. My worry here is overextension as its clear the Soviets are well set to exploit any gaps.
All those are on this sector and they've made no effort to exploit the wins. I'd rather have a fresh force to take advantage than over-commit. Not least as I still want to free up 2 PzA (even if i am still not sure for what purpose).
Finished off last turn's pocket and gave 2PzrA a chance to recover – my assumption is that Voronezh is going to be well defended.
East of Kharkiv, the rest of 4A, elements of 2 Hungarian and 6A followed up the retreating Soviets. Lacking mobile assets they couldn't engage with the new Soviet defensive line especially as their advance had been slowed by constant brigade sized rearguard actions.
The main blow fell again on the Donets bend as 1 Pzr A exploited the gaps torn last week and pushed past Voroshilovgrad as the Soviet 51A, in particular, fell apart. Even so, the flanks were poorly secured with seemingly fresh Soviet formations north and south of the salient.
Losses – this turn made use of that odd Pzr formation with all the French tanks. Soviet losses high enough to hurt – and most of those annoying brigades routed with 90+% losses.
Air war has calmed down after my big win a few turns back. I am getting a lot of uncontested GS for the first time in the game.
Steady stream of destroyed Soviet units. No real pockets but clusters of 2-3 divisions slowly adds up.
Perhaps worth a digression to my in-game strategy. I've gone back to some old saves to do a bit of testing on Soviet resiliance at this stage. Very roughly if a rifle division is < 60% TOE its very vulnerable to a retreat becoming a rout (or in other words roughly doubling the losses). If a relatively fresh division takes losses around 5-600 in a single battle that seems to weaken it towards 60%.
In consequence, the Soviets have to refit the assets, and have this requires them to organise a flow to/from depots to do so. But it takes say a turn to a depot, a turn not moving on the depot and then a turn back into the front line. So if I hit a narrow sector hard, and repeatedly, I can overwhelm this normal cycle, that in turn gives me the chance to inflict more losses thus slowing them from reaching the point where they have a ready reserve if a given formation falls apart.
Or in other words, sustained effort finally clears the way to movement.
But of course the reverse applies, each win is costing me CPP, in the end, as with AGC, I have to rest, that allows them to recover. In my mind (and here my last game against Steven is relevant) its the trade off between those 2 states that determines the relative balance once we enter 1943.
[1] Much later my opponent sent me this
So essentially there is no stored freight in Leningrad, the units are taking enough supply by truck from Osinovets but the city is doomed if/when I can isolate as they will collapse the turn after.
Weather continues to clear, just a few patches of light mud in the north.
Still can't isolate Osinovets, managed 5-4 for the interdiction score so have to hope that is reducing the shipping capacity.
Had one of those ideas that turn out to have been pretty stupid, decided to see if I could take NW Leningrad from just one hex – the gain is then it isolates the key hex. The disadvantage was its not a very good idea
But did manage to grab another wooded hex- just
So essentially no way to speed this up, I can't get an isolation over the lake but I should be able to cut the city off overland [1].
Accepting this means I have too much allocated just to Leningrad. First alternative was to see if i could make gains around the Lake, even if I can't take all the ports, capturing a few will reduce their naval interdition and deny a base for the VVS' fighters that are being very annoying. Can add this attack to the collection of 'not good ideas' I had this turn.
Final attempts to make any progress in the Valdai region, in some sectors the Soviets had made localised gains but managed to force them back (the side with no forts really suffers in this sort of restrictive fighting).
Orel retaken and 9A made some small gains but decided to rest 3PzA for another turn and think about targets. My worry here is overextension as its clear the Soviets are well set to exploit any gaps.
All those are on this sector and they've made no effort to exploit the wins. I'd rather have a fresh force to take advantage than over-commit. Not least as I still want to free up 2 PzA (even if i am still not sure for what purpose).
Finished off last turn's pocket and gave 2PzrA a chance to recover – my assumption is that Voronezh is going to be well defended.
East of Kharkiv, the rest of 4A, elements of 2 Hungarian and 6A followed up the retreating Soviets. Lacking mobile assets they couldn't engage with the new Soviet defensive line especially as their advance had been slowed by constant brigade sized rearguard actions.
The main blow fell again on the Donets bend as 1 Pzr A exploited the gaps torn last week and pushed past Voroshilovgrad as the Soviet 51A, in particular, fell apart. Even so, the flanks were poorly secured with seemingly fresh Soviet formations north and south of the salient.
Losses – this turn made use of that odd Pzr formation with all the French tanks. Soviet losses high enough to hurt – and most of those annoying brigades routed with 90+% losses.
Air war has calmed down after my big win a few turns back. I am getting a lot of uncontested GS for the first time in the game.
Steady stream of destroyed Soviet units. No real pockets but clusters of 2-3 divisions slowly adds up.
Perhaps worth a digression to my in-game strategy. I've gone back to some old saves to do a bit of testing on Soviet resiliance at this stage. Very roughly if a rifle division is < 60% TOE its very vulnerable to a retreat becoming a rout (or in other words roughly doubling the losses). If a relatively fresh division takes losses around 5-600 in a single battle that seems to weaken it towards 60%.
In consequence, the Soviets have to refit the assets, and have this requires them to organise a flow to/from depots to do so. But it takes say a turn to a depot, a turn not moving on the depot and then a turn back into the front line. So if I hit a narrow sector hard, and repeatedly, I can overwhelm this normal cycle, that in turn gives me the chance to inflict more losses thus slowing them from reaching the point where they have a ready reserve if a given formation falls apart.
Or in other words, sustained effort finally clears the way to movement.
But of course the reverse applies, each win is costing me CPP, in the end, as with AGC, I have to rest, that allows them to recover. In my mind (and here my last game against Steven is relevant) its the trade off between those 2 states that determines the relative balance once we enter 1943.
[1] Much later my opponent sent me this
So essentially there is no stored freight in Leningrad, the units are taking enough supply by truck from Osinovets but the city is doomed if/when I can isolate as they will collapse the turn after.
T50 - decisions, decisions (not all answered wisely)
T50 – 31 May 1942
Weather still shifting around, this turn rain almost everywhere, ground conditions a patchwork of clear and light mud.
Still plugging away trying to isolate Osinovets. 4-4 this turn.
Although its tempting to push on, gave 4 PzrA a break to recover CPP (at the moment this is a Panzer army with no tanks). More generally start to redeploy the rest of AGN into a defensive set up – the Soviets have reinforced enough that I'm not going to make any progress or inflict a decent loss ratio. More short term (ie not sure what to do), but 16 and 9 Armies around Smolensk also move into a defensive structure. What I do next with them really depends on how the Orel-Tula sector now develops.
Here after some thought have decided the best use of 3 PzrA for the moment is to take on the better Soviet formations. One way to end all these spoiling attacks is to make them have to fight on my terms. This also notionally takes Lipetsk as a wider target which is useful as it supports an attempt to capture Voronezh and opens up Tula or Ryazan as somewhat implausible longer term goals.
First step is to improve the defensive line of 2A as that is going to be vulnerable on the open steppes north of Orel.
The infantry phase was reasonably successful but the first commitment of the mobile formations ran into substantial Soviet resistance. As a result XXXXI(M) was diverted to help 2PzA break through north of Voronezh and cut the main rail line running north.
Next turn's reinforcements and some units freed by AGN will be sent here to improve my flank protection.
To the south, the balance of 4A and 6A moved into contact with the new Soviet defensive line along the Osel. 17A occupied Voroshilovgrad to protect 1 PzrA while that swung south trying to trap the Soviets against the Azov.
I really should know better than to attack in the Crimea as the Rumanians self-suicide again[1].
Which made the overall loss ratio much worse, but at least the Soviets are still around 100k per turn.
OOB not changing very much, am keeping the Soviets under 6m
[1] Dario Fo - accidental death of an anarchist
Weather still shifting around, this turn rain almost everywhere, ground conditions a patchwork of clear and light mud.
Still plugging away trying to isolate Osinovets. 4-4 this turn.
Although its tempting to push on, gave 4 PzrA a break to recover CPP (at the moment this is a Panzer army with no tanks). More generally start to redeploy the rest of AGN into a defensive set up – the Soviets have reinforced enough that I'm not going to make any progress or inflict a decent loss ratio. More short term (ie not sure what to do), but 16 and 9 Armies around Smolensk also move into a defensive structure. What I do next with them really depends on how the Orel-Tula sector now develops.
Here after some thought have decided the best use of 3 PzrA for the moment is to take on the better Soviet formations. One way to end all these spoiling attacks is to make them have to fight on my terms. This also notionally takes Lipetsk as a wider target which is useful as it supports an attempt to capture Voronezh and opens up Tula or Ryazan as somewhat implausible longer term goals.
First step is to improve the defensive line of 2A as that is going to be vulnerable on the open steppes north of Orel.
The infantry phase was reasonably successful but the first commitment of the mobile formations ran into substantial Soviet resistance. As a result XXXXI(M) was diverted to help 2PzA break through north of Voronezh and cut the main rail line running north.
Next turn's reinforcements and some units freed by AGN will be sent here to improve my flank protection.
To the south, the balance of 4A and 6A moved into contact with the new Soviet defensive line along the Osel. 17A occupied Voroshilovgrad to protect 1 PzrA while that swung south trying to trap the Soviets against the Azov.
I really should know better than to attack in the Crimea as the Rumanians self-suicide again[1].
Which made the overall loss ratio much worse, but at least the Soviets are still around 100k per turn.
OOB not changing very much, am keeping the Soviets under 6m
[1] Dario Fo - accidental death of an anarchist
T51 - Approaching the end of Leningrad?
T51 – 7 June 1942
Weather still variable with light rain and a mix of clear/light mud on the ground.
Again only managed a 4-4 draw off Osinovets. I'm going to pull the LB away as I need them elsewhere and I now see an overland method of taking Leningrad.
A decision I felt much better over when Heinrici took NW Leningrad, isolating the city itself.
Start pulling out some second echelon forces, even if it might take a while to actually reduce the city its now a matter of time? I also gave up on trying to push around Lake Ladoga, the solution to Leningrad now lies around the city itself.
Useful group of reinforcements arrive which will really help secure some flanks for the Orel-Voronezh battles. Everything from Orel to Lake Ladoga on the defensive for the moment.
At least this turn it was the Soviets who made an ill-advised attack in the Crimea.
Last week's gains by 1 PzA triggered a major Soviet retreat back to Rostov. Infantry followed up but let most of the assault formations rest. Limited gains by 6 and 17A along the line of the Donets.
Equally a series of isolated Soviet attacks along the Oskol so pulled back the southern part of 4A till the reinforcements arrive. In the end, the battles around Voronezh will render this sector indefensible if I can cut more of the rail links.
Soviet losses where I need them, mine down despite their localised attacks. Leningrad should push up their losses for this phase substantially.
VVS back to contesting the skies, I'm stretched so often struggling to match their commitments (another reason to reduce the LW commitment at Leningrad).
Freight situation is improving despite my recent gains. I'm slowly pushing unit priority back to #3 for the key formations.
VP situation, regaining Orel resets my HWM to 601. Voronezh should fall soon with a +6 time switch. I doubt I'll gain any time pts for the Caucasus as I'm still well short of regaining Rostov. Also, as in the logistics table 1 PzrA is struggling for mobility.
Weather still variable with light rain and a mix of clear/light mud on the ground.
Again only managed a 4-4 draw off Osinovets. I'm going to pull the LB away as I need them elsewhere and I now see an overland method of taking Leningrad.
A decision I felt much better over when Heinrici took NW Leningrad, isolating the city itself.
Start pulling out some second echelon forces, even if it might take a while to actually reduce the city its now a matter of time? I also gave up on trying to push around Lake Ladoga, the solution to Leningrad now lies around the city itself.
Useful group of reinforcements arrive which will really help secure some flanks for the Orel-Voronezh battles. Everything from Orel to Lake Ladoga on the defensive for the moment.
At least this turn it was the Soviets who made an ill-advised attack in the Crimea.
Last week's gains by 1 PzA triggered a major Soviet retreat back to Rostov. Infantry followed up but let most of the assault formations rest. Limited gains by 6 and 17A along the line of the Donets.
Equally a series of isolated Soviet attacks along the Oskol so pulled back the southern part of 4A till the reinforcements arrive. In the end, the battles around Voronezh will render this sector indefensible if I can cut more of the rail links.
Soviet losses where I need them, mine down despite their localised attacks. Leningrad should push up their losses for this phase substantially.
VVS back to contesting the skies, I'm stretched so often struggling to match their commitments (another reason to reduce the LW commitment at Leningrad).
Freight situation is improving despite my recent gains. I'm slowly pushing unit priority back to #3 for the key formations.
VP situation, regaining Orel resets my HWM to 601. Voronezh should fall soon with a +6 time switch. I doubt I'll gain any time pts for the Caucasus as I'm still well short of regaining Rostov. Also, as in the logistics table 1 PzrA is struggling for mobility.
T52 - train lines and VP calculations
T52 – 14 June 1942
Weather clears across the map apart from light rain on the Tula-Smolensk sector.
At Leningrad, some evidence the Soviets are abandoning the city and pulling out formations via Osinovets. Mostly let my assault divisions rest but needed to commit a Mot Division to seal off a small breakthrough near Novgorod.
Apart from that both sides seem to have accepted a stalemate north of Smolensk. Its too easy for both to squash anything that advances into the no-man's land between the 2 strong trench lines.
On the Orel-Voronezh sector, 3 PzrA took on fresh divisions and struck at the Soviet formations that have been conducting hit and run attacks. The Soviets abandoned Voronezh itself rather than risk a pocket and 2 PzrA swung south.
For the moment the wider rail net is the focus, if I can cut the line east of Svoboda then the Soviet line from there to the Donets has to be abandoned – in turn that eases the threat to the flank of 1 PzrA.
In the Donets sector, the Soviets launched a set of localised attacks on over-extended Axis formations but their 18 and 47 Armies were overwhelmed by 1 Pzr. In the chaos, Andrei Smirnov was killed when his HQ was over-run.
German tanks managed to cut both the N-S rail link and the Stalingrad-Rostov line.
In combination with the gains of 2 Pzr, this not only cut direct troop movements from Rostov but left the large Soviet force in the centre dependent on a single rail line (that also had to supply the Soviet formations fighting around Voronezh).
In a way I don't want non-VP terrain without a fight as on balance I can do a lot of damage close to the current front line. But I think the combination of these two offensives has made a complete mess of the Soviet logistics in the south. I need to clear my flanks and forcing a retreat is easier than having to stop advancing.
The current situation, plus having the bulk of 4 Pzr to redeploy, really keeps my options open – handily that also forces the Soviets to hold back some reserves. Since they are not really able to grow, then they too must be increasingly thinly spread.
They do seem to still have a large reserve unallocated but are not able to convert this into combat formations?
That turn takes my HWM to 617 with a +6 for Voronezh (I do now need to hold it to T81 to come out ahead on the exchange). Leningrad will give me 653 (580 of base city values). That puts me within 50 city points of the 630 which is where the Soviets need to more than match their historical December 1944 performance (as ever assuming all the bonuses cancel out).
I can see a feasible 30 (from combinations of Maikop, Krasnodar, Rostov, Tula and Tambov) but the 50 depends on Stalingrad – and despite recent gains that is a long way away.
Turn losses are still where I need them to be – hence the relative lack of growth of the Red Army.
Most of my losses came from the rout of 2 Rumanian formations near Rostov. As is clear from the manpower table, the Rumanians have taken heavy losses, mostly in the Crimea.
Weather clears across the map apart from light rain on the Tula-Smolensk sector.
At Leningrad, some evidence the Soviets are abandoning the city and pulling out formations via Osinovets. Mostly let my assault divisions rest but needed to commit a Mot Division to seal off a small breakthrough near Novgorod.
Apart from that both sides seem to have accepted a stalemate north of Smolensk. Its too easy for both to squash anything that advances into the no-man's land between the 2 strong trench lines.
On the Orel-Voronezh sector, 3 PzrA took on fresh divisions and struck at the Soviet formations that have been conducting hit and run attacks. The Soviets abandoned Voronezh itself rather than risk a pocket and 2 PzrA swung south.
For the moment the wider rail net is the focus, if I can cut the line east of Svoboda then the Soviet line from there to the Donets has to be abandoned – in turn that eases the threat to the flank of 1 PzrA.
In the Donets sector, the Soviets launched a set of localised attacks on over-extended Axis formations but their 18 and 47 Armies were overwhelmed by 1 Pzr. In the chaos, Andrei Smirnov was killed when his HQ was over-run.
German tanks managed to cut both the N-S rail link and the Stalingrad-Rostov line.
In combination with the gains of 2 Pzr, this not only cut direct troop movements from Rostov but left the large Soviet force in the centre dependent on a single rail line (that also had to supply the Soviet formations fighting around Voronezh).
In a way I don't want non-VP terrain without a fight as on balance I can do a lot of damage close to the current front line. But I think the combination of these two offensives has made a complete mess of the Soviet logistics in the south. I need to clear my flanks and forcing a retreat is easier than having to stop advancing.
The current situation, plus having the bulk of 4 Pzr to redeploy, really keeps my options open – handily that also forces the Soviets to hold back some reserves. Since they are not really able to grow, then they too must be increasingly thinly spread.
They do seem to still have a large reserve unallocated but are not able to convert this into combat formations?
That turn takes my HWM to 617 with a +6 for Voronezh (I do now need to hold it to T81 to come out ahead on the exchange). Leningrad will give me 653 (580 of base city values). That puts me within 50 city points of the 630 which is where the Soviets need to more than match their historical December 1944 performance (as ever assuming all the bonuses cancel out).
I can see a feasible 30 (from combinations of Maikop, Krasnodar, Rostov, Tula and Tambov) but the 50 depends on Stalingrad – and despite recent gains that is a long way away.
Turn losses are still where I need them to be – hence the relative lack of growth of the Red Army.
Most of my losses came from the rout of 2 Rumanian formations near Rostov. As is clear from the manpower table, the Rumanians have taken heavy losses, mostly in the Crimea.
T53 One year of war and Leningrad is in Axis hands
T53 – 21 June 1942
One year into this war and Leningrad falls.
Even with the substantial Soviet forces still around Osinovets, that should free up at least one very strong infantry formation.
Which in turn creates a rare larger strategic decision, where best on the map to deploy a well led, artillery heavy, infantry corps backed by a couple of mot inf divisions?
The main action took place in the arc around Orel and Voronezh. 3 PzrA pressed north and started to engage with the powerful Soviet formations that have been carrying out hit and run attacks while 2 Pzr deepened its hold on Voronezh and struck south along the line of the Don. 4A shifted its focus to fill in to the north of 2 Pzr while the Hungarians took up defensive positions on the west bank of the Don.
To the south, the Soviets had pulled back as their supply lines were threatened. Elements of 6 and 17 Armies followed up while 1 PzrA rested. In the Donets region it seemed as if the Soviet forces had split into 2 groups, one covering Rostov and the other the crossing of the Donets on the rail line to Stalingrad.
Losses, very much the totals I want to see
Soviet destroyed units over the last few turns. The equivalent of 13 divisions (5 at Leningrad). So again nothing dramatic but that is the bulk of 2 Combined Arms formations.
My best guess is it takes 5-6 terms to raise a replacement, train it to a useable experience level and bring it into combat. So at the moment, between the refit demands coming off normal combat and the need to replace lost formations, I don't think the Soviets can generate many Rifle Corps for a while.
I'm badly stretched but so are they, but then the loss of Leningrad may mean they opt to draw off a lot of the formations holding the Volkhov as there is little of value (unless they really commit to clinging to Osinovets – which is plausible).
The redeployment of the Luftwaffe from Leningrad paid off in a much better loss ratio.
VP situation. HWM now 653. I've shown the cities that are feasible for October – they vary from very likely to only if the Red Army collapses.
Rostov is a certainty (indeed essential), I could retake Rzhev if I commit 4 PzrA there but clearly the cluster of Maikop, Krasnodar and Stalingrad are the obvious targets. Given how the fighting is going north of Orel, I think I can take Tula, Ryazan and Tambov will take a more deliberate effort.
In theory for an auto win I only need 97 by October, so say Rostov (10), Maikop and Krasnodar (20+x), Tula (16) gives me 46 (a bit more if I gain time scores for Maikop and Krasnodar). Stalingrad makes it all very close, possibly that and one of Tambov or Rzhev?
Very much in my favour is the state of the Pzrs. I am no longer avoiding combat as actual losses are not a problem
I still have 4 of the replacement battalions to hand. I've used the others mainly to shake out the P38t etc from the older TOEs. Ideally I'll now try and keep these till the Pzrs start to outrun their supply lines.
Active tank pools for current production. I'm mostly emptying the pool every turn so there is no real build up but that is less a worry when the main formations are so well resourced.
One year into this war and Leningrad falls.
Even with the substantial Soviet forces still around Osinovets, that should free up at least one very strong infantry formation.
Which in turn creates a rare larger strategic decision, where best on the map to deploy a well led, artillery heavy, infantry corps backed by a couple of mot inf divisions?
The main action took place in the arc around Orel and Voronezh. 3 PzrA pressed north and started to engage with the powerful Soviet formations that have been carrying out hit and run attacks while 2 Pzr deepened its hold on Voronezh and struck south along the line of the Don. 4A shifted its focus to fill in to the north of 2 Pzr while the Hungarians took up defensive positions on the west bank of the Don.
To the south, the Soviets had pulled back as their supply lines were threatened. Elements of 6 and 17 Armies followed up while 1 PzrA rested. In the Donets region it seemed as if the Soviet forces had split into 2 groups, one covering Rostov and the other the crossing of the Donets on the rail line to Stalingrad.
Losses, very much the totals I want to see
Soviet destroyed units over the last few turns. The equivalent of 13 divisions (5 at Leningrad). So again nothing dramatic but that is the bulk of 2 Combined Arms formations.
My best guess is it takes 5-6 terms to raise a replacement, train it to a useable experience level and bring it into combat. So at the moment, between the refit demands coming off normal combat and the need to replace lost formations, I don't think the Soviets can generate many Rifle Corps for a while.
I'm badly stretched but so are they, but then the loss of Leningrad may mean they opt to draw off a lot of the formations holding the Volkhov as there is little of value (unless they really commit to clinging to Osinovets – which is plausible).
The redeployment of the Luftwaffe from Leningrad paid off in a much better loss ratio.
VP situation. HWM now 653. I've shown the cities that are feasible for October – they vary from very likely to only if the Red Army collapses.
Rostov is a certainty (indeed essential), I could retake Rzhev if I commit 4 PzrA there but clearly the cluster of Maikop, Krasnodar and Stalingrad are the obvious targets. Given how the fighting is going north of Orel, I think I can take Tula, Ryazan and Tambov will take a more deliberate effort.
In theory for an auto win I only need 97 by October, so say Rostov (10), Maikop and Krasnodar (20+x), Tula (16) gives me 46 (a bit more if I gain time scores for Maikop and Krasnodar). Stalingrad makes it all very close, possibly that and one of Tambov or Rzhev?
Very much in my favour is the state of the Pzrs. I am no longer avoiding combat as actual losses are not a problem
I still have 4 of the replacement battalions to hand. I've used the others mainly to shake out the P38t etc from the older TOEs. Ideally I'll now try and keep these till the Pzrs start to outrun their supply lines.
Active tank pools for current production. I'm mostly emptying the pool every turn so there is no real build up but that is less a worry when the main formations are so well resourced.
Re: T53 One year of war and Leningrad is in Axis hands
loki100 wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 7:56 am T53 – 21 June 1942
One year into this war and Leningrad falls.
Even with the substantial Soviet forces still around Osinovets, that should free up at least one very strong infantry formation.
- Victory At Leningrad.jpg (40.46 KiB) Viewed 914 times
The Führer announces to all at The Reichstag the great Victory.
Great news from the Front, however with the enemy still holding the lake on either side its means you still have to keep at least part of a Armee there so as the city is not retaken.
Redeploying a Korps is good news, better if it was a entire Armee, lets hope the Finns arrive.
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
unfortunately I'm too late for the Finns, if I recall you need to capture the city before March 42 to have any chance of triggering their allocation.
Osinovets is a pain - and quite a clever gambit to have stuffed it full of formations. It gives me 3 not very nice choices.
a) combination of navai air interdiction and keep good stuff back for a direct assault
b) try to capture the Ladoga ports, again will tie up some very good stuff
c) screen and hope
I can't get naval air interdiction without making it the mission of a large part of the LW, even then the Soviets can usually do enough to avoid isolation as they have LB etc to spare.
Trying to go around is feasible but its a classic one hex every other week style attack, so will be finished say September.
Both these also remove the dividend of some powerful units elsewhere. So I've gone with screen and hope, can't imagine they have good supply so I think its a passive threat for some time.
At the bottom line I need to hold Leningrad till the initiative flips, as it adds a lot to my HWM and I want that set as high as possible for the next phase of the game (assuming an auto win is out of reach). I have a guarenteed +6 on the exchange (as they get no time bonus for a recapture) so after the initiative change I can take my chances. I can actually build up in early 43 with the 'Stalingrad' allocation and the LW field formations.
On the other hand if I never lose Leningrad, that stops the Finland surrender chain, which in combination is 60 VP the Soviets can never claim - but I think that is being far too optimistic.
Osinovets is a pain - and quite a clever gambit to have stuffed it full of formations. It gives me 3 not very nice choices.
a) combination of navai air interdiction and keep good stuff back for a direct assault
b) try to capture the Ladoga ports, again will tie up some very good stuff
c) screen and hope
I can't get naval air interdiction without making it the mission of a large part of the LW, even then the Soviets can usually do enough to avoid isolation as they have LB etc to spare.
Trying to go around is feasible but its a classic one hex every other week style attack, so will be finished say September.
Both these also remove the dividend of some powerful units elsewhere. So I've gone with screen and hope, can't imagine they have good supply so I think its a passive threat for some time.
At the bottom line I need to hold Leningrad till the initiative flips, as it adds a lot to my HWM and I want that set as high as possible for the next phase of the game (assuming an auto win is out of reach). I have a guarenteed +6 on the exchange (as they get no time bonus for a recapture) so after the initiative change I can take my chances. I can actually build up in early 43 with the 'Stalingrad' allocation and the LW field formations.
On the other hand if I never lose Leningrad, that stops the Finland surrender chain, which in combination is 60 VP the Soviets can never claim - but I think that is being far too optimistic.
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Depending on what the Soviets do, you can probably try to make a defensive line along the Volkhov river with 16th Army and move the 18th (or parts of the 18th) where you may require reserves. So that's either AGC or AGS.
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Also if I am not mistaken your going to lose a Fallschirmjäger Div in a transfer going by its colour hue in one of your screenshots, and if its the one formally attached to 11th Armee ( cant think of its ID at moment ) its a powerful unit.
That is also going to put a strain on things as well.
That is also going to put a strain on things as well.
-
DesertedFox
- Posts: 376
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:13 am
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
This game is going along nicely with how I see the current state of the game. It's not the only example and as well there
are games in progress that will hopefully mirror this "balance" somewhat.
However, Loki, your experience and expertise at playing the Germans is well known. May I be so bold as to respectively ask
your perception of your opponents experience and skill level given he is not an active forum member?
are games in progress that will hopefully mirror this "balance" somewhat.
However, Loki, your experience and expertise at playing the Germans is well known. May I be so bold as to respectively ask
your perception of your opponents experience and skill level given he is not an active forum member?
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
tm1 wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 12:16 pm Also if I am not mistaken your going to lose a Fallschirmjäger Div in a transfer going by its colour hue in one of your screenshots, and if its the one formally attached to 11th Armee ( cant think of its ID at moment ) its a powerful unit.
That is also going to put a strain on things as well.
One thing I find in a typical game of WiTEx is you have few really big open choices, its mostly a case of amend the basic plan at the game start then operational/tactical choices and then as the Axis player Moscow or south in 1942. So there is lots of decision making but its usually constrained.Jango32 wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 12:10 pm Depending on what the Soviets do, you can probably try to make a defensive line along the Volkhov river with 16th Army and move the 18th (or parts of the 18th) where you may require reserves. So that's either AGC or AGS.
Here I have the equivalent of 2 corps, well led, well organised and no constraints on their next step. So my feeling was that while at this part of the game I can win battles anywhere, I think I can only have 2 significant operations (or in the end they will all just run out of steam) out of say:
a) really secure Leningrad
b) Rzhev/Kalinin
c) Tula, Tambov, Ryazan
d) Stalingrad
e) The Caucasus
Clearly a couple of powerful infantry corps, plus some motorised divisions will make a massive difference on any of those. At one level, the challenge was to ignore all the exciting squirrels that tend to distract me from what passes for a plan.
Without too many spoilers, took the view that a+b were dead ends, and it was either c or d plus e. But I spent an awful amount of time shifting formations and rebalancing sectors to fit the task - and frustrating myself that some units seemed to spend longer just moving around rather than contributing.
Yes losing that airborne unit is a pain, I've been using it as either an assault formation or to defend a key sector - the Soviets tend to bounce off it. All I can say is that e-Adolf really failed to properly understand just how vital the summer of 1942 was to his long term life chances ... . Especially when he starts taking away the Mot divisions with the promise they will be even better when they return
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
overall the balance feels better, I think the VVS is grossly under-rated, to the extent that its very hard to get much out of it, except where the LW isn't in action. The Soviet air morale has to be 5+ higher or their fighters appear and die. In that state, the merits or otherwise of the Sturmoviks becomes a moot point, no escorts, means lots of dead bombers if they risk it (either GA or GS).DesertedFox wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 12:17 pm This game is going along nicely with how I see the current state of the game. It's not the only example and as well there
are games in progress that will hopefully mirror this "balance" somewhat.
However, Loki, your experience and expertise at playing the Germans is well known. May I be so bold as to respectively ask
your perception of your opponents experience and skill level given he is not an active forum member?
The tank losses are clearly a lot lower (I think its running at 60% of my last game) and that is going to have a bearing if I end up on the strategic defensive. But then the Soviets should see lower losses too as their experience builds up, so that is one change that may even out across the game.
This is a first GC for WiTE2, but a fair bit (some time back) for #1. From a lot of AGEOD games together, we are well matched, oddly I'm usually a better defensive player and he's better at high risk attacking operations. So in that sense, we are playing against operational preference.
Generally, I don't think there is any substitute for playing WiTE2 through the transition points. If I'd known how much damage I could have done with simple pressure, I would have been far more aggressive in my last HtH. But if you avoid over-building (which I think is the common Soviet error in 42, all those SU and no real admin pt constraint), it is less demanding with the Soviet side (accepting the endless admin load).
As I mentioned in the first post, we did talk about a 'chess clock' idea, to force us both to 'good enough'. We didn't do that in the end, but we had a 3 week period when our respective work loads were light and really got a lot of turns done (faster than I could write them up).