Supply bug in China?

[Bavre]

In a current game I made an oopsie by forgetting that ZoCs don't count for an ambush. This allowed a Chinese corps to Leeroy Jenkins into Tientsin. I was suprised but not overly worried as I had an industrial center in Shangai plus secondary supply in Tsingtoa etc. But nevertheless almost everything in China went down to 3 ???
I could also reproduce it in hotseat. Did some supply rules change or is this a bug? Or maybe some kind of special thing in China?

[petedalby]

I don't have access to the game map at the moment but I suspect the Chinese have cut the north / south railway that links Peking with the southern cities. This will drop the supply value of everything south of the cut railway line.

You need to retake Tientsin asap or your troops will start to suffer badly at the hands of the Chinese.

It is a standard supply issue.

[Bavre]

No, no, that I'm well aware off. What I don't understand is why the secondary supply and the industrial center are not kicking in.

[petedalby]

Supply Rules are covered in 7.11. If the rail network is cut your supply will be degraded.

Sad to say that your campaign may already be doomed. If the Axis don't keep to their timetable it is very hard to recover.

[Bavre]

You still missunderstand me, so here's a picture from me recreating it in hotseat:

Supply.JPG (133.15 KiB) Viewed 713 times

As you can see the towns in central China did still have a rail link to both an industrial center in Shanghai and the secondary supply in Tsingtao. In other words what you can see here is a clear contradiction to the supply rules in 7.11 (last point on page 150) and 7.12.2
That's the problem.

[KlasE]

I assume it's because those two are captured cities?

In the manual on page 150 it says:

• Captured enemy Resources will generally provide less supply than
  friendly ones.

When British Islands have been in axis control, I have never seen any city go above 5 in supply.

[petedalby]

I don't think I have misunderstood you. Keep reading the section on Supply. Remember you are in captured enemy territory.

7.13.3 is the key bit:

"7.13.3. Captured but Unconnected Enemy Resources
The Occupational Efficiency penalty (the fact that enemy resources don’t generally work as efficiently under your control) doesn’t apply in the following circumstances:§ Occupied Capitals, Primary or Secondary Supply Centers that aren’t connected by rail to a friendly Major’s Capital, Industrial Center or Primary Supply Center will have a maximum strength of 5.

§ Occupied Industrial Centers that aren’t connected to a friendly Major’s Capital, Industrial Center or Primary Supply Center will have a maximum strength of 3"

Hence Tsingtao is down to 5 and Shanghai is down to 3. You must restore the rail link or Japan is in deep trouble.

[Bavre]

Yes, those were the points I was missing. Thanks guys!

So for anyone in the same situation:

Contrary to your own secondary supply centers, occupied ones only affect themselves but not any other town connected to them via rail.

And occupied industrial centers do by 7.13.3 not count at all as hubs on their own.


I must say this is a really cool north china gambit. If you can manage to even just slip a madlad chinese corps into the rail line up there you can severely fritz the Japs in the rest of China.
Is this a known strategy?

[OldCrowBalthazor]

I must say this is a really cool north china gambit. If you can manage to even just slip a madlad chinese corps into the rail line up there you can severely fritz the Japs in the rest of China.
Is this a known strategy?

Yes...but not widely known I suspect.

[Chernobyl]

To be clear I believe the issue is that your china stuff has to be connected by rail to Seoul (or Mukden etc?). It's either the primary supply or the alternate capital you need a connection to. Shanghai ain't it.

[EarlyDoors]

Later on, that issue disappears

I wonder if it is when Nanjing puppet government is formed?

Does that become a friendly capital?

I've never 100% understood it

[Bavre]

Yes...but not widely known I suspect.

How strange to be at the receiving end of one of those. Could Karma actually be a thing?

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Yes...but not widely known I suspect.

How strange to be at the receiving end of one of those. Could Karma actually be a thing?

Haha...Yes.

[BillRunacre]

Later on, that issue disappears

I wonder if it is when Nanjing puppet government is formed?

Does that become a friendly capital?

I've never 100% understood it

The formation of the Nanjing government should mean that if the rail line is cut then resource strength will only drop to 5 rather than 3.

So it's still best to avoid letting the Chinese army do this to you!