Raiders Could Be a Game Issue

[canuckgamer]

In this our 2nd War Plan PBEM game, my opponent has discovered how lethal German surface raiders can be and it seems almost impossible to engage them. I have been trying to engage them with most of the UK navy and the French navy. A number of times the result of +1 has come up but that's it. Pretty well all the ocean hexes are rain so the recon is very low. That brings up the question, if the UK and French naval units can't find the German raiders shouldn't they also have trouble locating convoys? They are sinking more MM's than German subs. I'm wondering if weather impacts enemy subs and surface raiders attacking convoys. I have even been moving individual ships adjacent hoping that with enough attempts I will eventually engage one. I would quess that I have attempted over 2 dozen attempts without any success. It is April 40 and I have already lost 54 MMs.

Last turn they sunk another 8 MM's. I know that historically the Germans never again sent out their surface ships after losing the Bismarck but the way this game currently plays I can see them doing this the entire game. U-boats should be the greatest threat to convoys not 2 German surface fleets. All you do is build some oilers and they can stay at sea as long as they want. It seems this is another game issue similar to overruns and the advancement of the rail lines. Maybe this should be looked at for the next update.

[CHINCHIN]

Submarines last the entire game, rarely do you lose an entire unit. The surface fleets will sooner or later be intercepted and sunk. Send carrier fleets to intercept first, then surface fleets.

I do not know to what extent attacks on convoys are influenced by bad weather.

[Lascar]

You are a correct in your observation. The issues is not Allies being able to sink them once they are located and engaged. The problem is the difficulty getting a sighting so that your ships can engage them. The few times that raiders were sent out by the Germans they were rather quickly located and shadowed: The Bismarck, eventually the Graf Spee and sorties against the Arctic convoys. Once the raiders engage a convoy their location is known and it is only a matter of time before Allied aircraft and surface ships will narrow down their search patterns and eventually find them and engage them. Also Ultra intercepts that broke the Kriegsmarine naval codes helped with that.

Once the Germans begin sinking merchants the chances of Allied naval forces locating them should increase to an extent that the Germans have to make the hard decision to risk continuing their raider mission or being located and sunk by superior allied naval forces. I have seen games where the Germans rampage for many turns, pursued by every ship the allies can spare and not one sighting occurs.

[canuckgamer]

Thanks for the replies and some very good points made. Last turn the raiders sank another 10 MM's to the subs destroying 4. It is the April 40 in our game. The UK starts with 205 MMs and gain 39 from Norway and Denmark after they were conquered for a total of 244. Total MM's lost now total 68 so that is already 28%!!! Maybe convoy attacks should be limited to one per turn since they can now do two. The Battle of the Atlantic didn't peak until 1942 when the U-Boats sank the most tonnage.
German raiders should be a minor factor in the Battle of the Atlantic, not a major one. As Lascar pointed out, once the raiders sunk some MMs the Brits would have a much better idea as to their location. I'm also wondering what Raider mode is meant to simulate since it makes them so difficult to find.
If this isn't corrected in an update I will have to discuss some kind of house rule for raiders.

[AlvaroSousa]

Use the disposable French ships to scout and damage in small groups
Then use the UK to finish the job.

The German fleet is very important. A German player that uses them as a toss away fleet opens themselves to destruction. When they keep their fleet it is always a threat to the N.A. The UK must keep a force at Scapa Flow. But if you sink it then the entire RN can obliterate the Italian Navy.

Just the threat of German ships keeps the Allies at bay. Sure they can risk losing 1-2 ships but they need a fleet available.

Then there is the USSR issue. No Fleet the USSR runs around sinking their iron ore.

Remember it took 1/2 the RN to hunt the Bismarck AND they got lucky.

[generalfdog]

If you send the surface raiders out at anytime other then severe weather you risk irreplaceable losses. a hint for hunting them, don't be afraid to use individual ships to get your spotting bonus up there of course if there is more then one German ship you may take heavy losses but you rarely engage on the first try, and the more tries the more chances, send your better stuff with 3 ships after 2 or 3 spotting increases