Which defending units suffer a malus in towns/cities?

[OxfordGuy3]

Hi - I don't think I could find this information in the manual, but which units suffer a malus when defending in towns and cities and is this just a -1 malus to Hard attacks (i.e. from Infantry, basically)? I know tanks are affected (presumably ALL tanks - light, regular and heavy?), but what about mechanised units, anti-tank, recon and armoured trains? Thanks!

[BillRunacre]

Tanks and Mechanized units suffer the penalty if attacked while they are in an urban area.

[Taxman66]

Does that include other units designated as 'Light Armour' too?

[OxfordGuy3]

Okay, thanks. It seems a bit strange that Mechanized units don't seem to have any advantages over Tanks, only negatives, considering they now seem to be the same cost (don't think this was always the case). The only advantages I can see are that you can build them when your Tank pool runs out, and for countries that don't develop Tank Weapons tech, but do develop Infantry Weapons tech (e.g. this may be the case for Italy), they could be a better buy than Tanks, unless I'm missing something?

[OxfordGuy3]

Does that include other units designated as 'Light Armour' too?

I wondered that too, though I don't think I've seen the malus for Recon or Anti-tank units

[BillRunacre]

Does that include other units designated as 'Light Armour' too?

Just four unit types:

Mechanized
Light Tanks
Tanks
Heavy Tanks

Mechanized units are an extra mobile striking force, not better than tanks but they still have their uses.

[OxfordGuy3]

Okay, thanks!

[armuss]

Okay, thanks. It seems a bit strange that Mechanized units don't seem to have any advantages over Tanks, only negatives, considering they now seem to be the same cost (don't think this was always the case). The only advantages I can see are that you can build them when your Tank pool runs out, and for countries that don't develop Tank Weapons tech, but do develop Infantry Weapons tech (e.g. this may be the case for Italy), they could be a better buy than Tanks, unless I'm missing something?

Maybe it's time to cut the cost down to 225 MPP?

[OxfordGuy3]

Tanks and Mechanized units suffer the penalty if attacked while they are in an urban area.

What is the actual affect of the penalty and is it only if they are attack by "hard" type units (i.e. usually infantry)? Does the defense bonus (even for hard attacks) of the settlement/town/city still apply first, or do tanks and mechanised units not get any defense bonus for hard attacks in urban areas i.e. are they more vulnerable in urban areas against such attacks than in clear hexes (though presumably still less vulnerable vs. air and armoured attacks?)

[BillRunacre]

Their defense value is decreased by 1. So it's not major but it will make a difference.

[OxfordGuy3]

Thanks, so is that just their defence versus Hard attack reduced by one? So, they still get the usual urban defence bonuses on top of that?

[BillRunacre]

Versus Soft attack too. So they will suffer a penalty against any infantry (or cavalry) attack.

[OxfordGuy3]

Thanks, but presumably that is still offset somewhat by the usual urban terrain bonuses, so not necessarily worse than being in clear terrain?

[Taxman66]

Without researching into exacting numbers, I have found Tanks to be more vulnerable in urban (and swamp) hexes than if they were in clear. Best to avoid being in those terrains with them if it can be avoided.

[BillRunacre]

Thanks, but presumably that is still offset somewhat by the usual urban terrain bonuses, so not necessarily worse than being in clear terrain?

Not necessarily, but it does provide an incentive to defend the urban area with a decent infantry unit if you have one available, and keep the armoured forces available for mobile operations.

[OxfordGuy3]

Interestingly, I've noticed that armoured units don't seem to suffer the malus vs Hard and Soft attacks if the defending hex has both a town and forested terrain. I presume this is intentional, as the tanks (or whatever) could be defending in the forest, rather than the town itself?

Also if a unit is defending a town on a mountainous hex, does it gain the defence bonus of the town or of the moutains?

[Hubert Cater]

Generally, if a unit is located on top of a resource that is also on top of a terrain, e.g. a forest or mountain, only the resource defence bonus is applied. There is no cumulative bonus from both the terrain and the resource.

So if the bonus is a -1 for being in a city/town, then that bonus or penalty in this case should be applied.

[OxfordGuy3]

"So if the bonus is a -1 for being in a city/town, then that bonus or penalty in this case should be applied."

Well I'm pretty sure it isn't being applied for armoured units in Chernigov or Gomel, which are towns in forested hexes east of the Pripyat Marshes in Russia, or is that a display bug when viewing the unit's properties? Would be good to know which.

[Hubert Cater]

My mistake, there is no cumulative effect from being on a resource and a terrain when it comes to the defensive bonuses they provide, e.g. it is the topmost item and in this case the city/town would provide the regular defensive bonus.

However you are correct in that the penalties, e.g. the -1 that would apply currently looks at terrain first and then resource.

So the -1 does not apply to a tank in a city that is also a forested hex.

I'll discuss with Bill if we should keep this as is or make an amendment here as well to follow the same logic as the regular defensive bonuses.

[OxfordGuy3]

Okay, thanks, I think there's some logic in doing it either way